Ray of Frost or Magic Missile?

[Emka]

A brand new 1st level Wizard, which of these two At-Wills would be better?
I rolled one for one of my players and I instinctly chose MM as it has been the wizard's bread&butter since forever.

But after playing two sessions and more careful reading, I fail to see the MM's advantage over Ray of Frost save range. The slowed ailment more than makes up for that in my eyes.
Or am I simply missing some key ingredient here? Basically I'm asking you guys to sell me the Magic Missile

Note that we're using the 'old' 4e MM, so no auto-hit.

 

[keterys]

MM is good if you build around it - for example, with Wizard's Fury, if there are people who hand out basic attacks, etc.

But personally I choose neither. Are any non-PHB1 at-wills allowed?

 

[OnlineDM]

As I recall, the advantages of the original Magic Missile over Ray of Frost are just the range, the damage, and the fact that MM can be used as a ranged basic attack (which generally only comes up if you have a warlord in the party who can grant ranged basic attacks). It's also a different damage type (force versus cold) and it attacks a different defense (Reflex versus Fortitude), if you care.

I believe the original Magic Missile dealt 2d4+Int damage while Ray of Frost deals 1d6+Int, so you're getting more damage out of MM on average (average of 5+Int versus an average of 2.5+Int)

If those things don't matter to your particular wizard, then the slowing from Ray of Frost probably makes it a better option.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

MM is good if you build around it - for example, with Wizard's Fury, if there are people who hand out basic attacks, etc.

But personally I choose neither. Are any non-PHB1 at-wills allowed?

Yeah, they are both sub-par compared with any of the newer at-wills. If you can pick one of the AP or HotFL at-wills like Beguiling Strands you're way better off. None of the PHB1 at-wills besides T-Wave are that good. The old pre-nerf Cloud of Daggers was not bad though.

 

[fba827]

you're also less likely to run into a monster that has force resistance (in fact, some of the newer monsters have negative effects if they get hit with force damage, like losing their insubstantial for a round).

whereas cold monsters, you could meet some badguys with cold vulnerability but just as likley to run into creatures with cold resistance...

of course, all that depends on what type of monsters your DM likes to use. but of the published ones, far far fewer have force resistance (i can't even think of one) than cold resistance (i can think of at least a few).

but, yeah, other than that, range if the main difference thing. and some damage.
though if you really like slowing people (and for some parties, that is superbetter since someone in the party could have feats/powers that are better against slowed people; or else if your party has lots of "squishy" characters and keeping enemies slowed as a way of making it harder for them to get to you is an equally important tactic).

 

[Emka]

Some interesting points. I like the force damage tidbit.

Yes we're using Core Rules only, so basically only PHB1. The party does have a Warlord though no powers that allow for Ranged Basic Attacks. What the party doesn't have is a fullfledged defender so the Warlord is also the damage sponge.
That would make it more important to keep the baddies away, right? As in, slowing them down would be very useful especially with the two strikers the party has.

The Wizard's other at-will is Scorching Burst which is ofcourse also a vs Ref attack. Right now it's only advantage over MM is that it's mostly a minion-popper.

 

[fba827]

given what you said about your party composition (more squishy and a warlord is the both damage sponge and healer - something that has the potential to go from bad to worse if that one pin gets knocked out), I'd suggest taking ray of frost now and then see how it goes.

If (after a couple levels) it seems like the slow isn't helping all that much, at a later level, retrain it for magic missile.

that's my thoughts on it anyway based on what you said.

 

[Zaran]

I always found slow to be a weak condition on its own.

 

[mneme]

Have to join the chorus -- can I have a third option?

Even with PHB, the order of Wizard at wills was something like:

Thunderwave (if you have a wis bonus > 11; more if your wis is higher)
Scorching Burst (only at will area burst; must take)
Cloud of Daggers if high wis (highest damage at will with wis 16 or greater, auto minion popper, good combo with Thunderwave and your other powers)
Ray of Frost (Good as a third at will, as it's the only wizard at will with an actual status effect; Orb mages should take this or Cloud of Daggers at first level as it's the only way to use their feature in most fights)
Magic Missile (great range, but it's basically a power that lets you pretend you had a bad longbow. Better to do your own thing than take powers for bad copies of other people's things).

New Magic Missile is better [as an auto minion popper], but still basically a decent third or fourth at will; the equivalent of "I have a longbow" rather than a real power. It's better if you kit it out, of course, but then you're spending a lot of effort to enhance your basic ranged power.

Also, nearly nothing in PHB grants ranged powers.

 

[DracoSuave]

It depends what your first at-will is.

If your first at-will is not Cloud of Daggers, and you want single target utility, you want Cloud of Daggers. Above poster noted most of its advantages, but I'll include one more. As an area attack it ignores cover and concealment.

If your first at-will IS Cloud of Daggers, your second is best off being either Thunderwave or Beguiling Strands.