D&D General Ray Winninger on 5e’s success, product cadence, the OGL, and more.

[mamba]

Genuine question: What was changed because of playtest feedback? I wasn't following it super closely but it seemed to me the consensus was that the playtest was pretty much pointless because nothjng changed?

Hard to say what was changed because of the playtest, to me it is more the other way around. A lot of ideas were shot down by the playtest / WotC’s tendency to drop things instead of revising them and asking again.

I assume we would have seen more changes without a playtest…

 

[gban007]

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you had a huge order, you'd just split it out across multiple vendors.

The more I think about it, the more I'd worry about the business side of things. Hasbro is in massive debt and needs profitability over everything else. Between tariffs and printing in the US and western Europe, they're not making much money on the printed books.

I wonder if this goes back to the strategy outlined up thread - if WotC wants to push everything to direct sales, then the profitability of the books doesn't matter if they lock people into D&D Beyond. They'll make their money long term by cutting retailers and distributors out of the equation.

To support @WinningerR point re printing, my first printing run of Explorers Guide to Wildemount -2020- printed in USA. First printing run of Fizbans Treasury of Dragons - 2021 - printed in USA. My 11th printing run of players handbook (unknown year but purchased before either of the above) - printed in USA. So unless they've been in trouble for years, I don't think printing in USA is that bad a sign.

 

[Dire Bare]

I mentioned this to Mike before. I think this is wrong. I think D&D is played in many different ways. Just look at the debates about what’s needed fixing and you get an idea that people’s tables vary a lot. I think D&D does best when it is more flexible for different play styles too.

In fact I’d bet many of the issues with the new core books is they are leaning towards a certain play style.

Magic has multiple formats, literally different ways to play the game. Similar to how you can use a traditional deck of playing cards to play many different games.

Warhammer has . . . Warhammer Age of Sigmar, Warhammer Old World, Warhammer 40K, Warhammer Horus Heresy, Kill Team, Necromunda, War Cry, Underworlds, Adeptus Titanicus, Legion Imperialis . . . all different games using Warhammer miniatures, but all definitely "Warhammer".

D&D has different versions of the rules, official and unofficial, and certainly different playstyles, but . . . it's largely the same game. IMO.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

D&D has different versions of the rules, official and unofficial, and certainly different playstyles, but . . . it's largely the same game. IMO.

I would agree with that. Curse of Strahd might be the most popular WotC adventure, but D&D isn't a horror game, no matter how many vampires your wizard fireballs. It's a fantasy adventure game, more or less every time. I think it could certainly be stretched further than it is -- Dimension 20 does a good job of showing the way there -- but so far, WotC hasn't really pushed the boundaries that much.

 

[billd91]

Magic has multiple formats, literally different ways to play the game. Similar to how you can use a traditional deck of playing cards to play many different games.

Similar, but not quite the same. The cards all have their inherent rules that do their specific thing and that constrains and shapes things in way the card suits don’t. The main thrust - kill the opposing caster with spells and summoned critters - is the same.

D&D has different versions of the rules, official and unofficial, and certainly different playstyles, but . . . it's largely the same game. IMO.

I think the campaign dependent curation is conceptually fairly close to varying format for magic. Different mixes of species, different mixes of classes, myriad social relationships, differences in play style, differences in campaign planning (sandbox, AP, PC-driven narratives, etc).

 

[eyeheartawk]

I would agree with that. Curse of Strahd might be the most popular WotC adventure, but D&D isn't a horror game, no matter how many vampires your wizard fireballs. It's a fantasy adventure game, more or less every time. I think it could certainly be stretched further than it is -- Dimension 20 does a good job of showing the way there -- but so far, WotC hasn't really pushed the boundaries that much.

And a particular fantasy adventure game, that is magic heavy power fantasy. Like, good luck trying to make a low magic setting work with like, 90% + of the classes as they are constructed.

OG Ravenloft understood this. It's not scary when the game is literally about killing monsters and taking their stuff. So it leaned heavy into Hammer horror vibes.

 

[mamba]

How do you quantify this? I know the 5e KS market is huge, but I don't know much about OSR KS market. Regardless how do you measure the value of one versus the other? Is someone keeping track?

Questing Beast had a video on that recently, do not have a link though. I think it went something like 5e is half the TTRPG KS market, OSR is 2/3s of the rest these days, everyone else is getting squeezed out

 

[mamba]

Except we weren't talking money, we were talking size.

do you think the two are unrelated?

 

[mamba]

Since you asked, I don't feel guilty shilling the project. You can find it on Patreon.

I am certainly more interested in what you come up with than what 2024 ended up being. Lost interest in that one fast halfway through the playtest phase when all the interesting ideas were being kicked to the curb

 

[EthanSental]

I am certainly more interested in what you come up with than what 2024 ended up being. Lost interest in that one fast halfway through the playtest phase when all the interesting ideas were being kicked to the curb

About 1200 total members on the patreon but I’d recommend the $5 a month option good feedback on things Mike presents to us.