Re. EN World staff reviewers and good/bad reviews
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
Orcus said:
You're probably right. Which is unfortunate, since publishers already choose who they send review copies to.
I'll tell you what. If the publishing community as a whole can come to a reasonable consensus on review guidelines and policy here at EN World, I will enforce it. Perhaps someone could suggest that in GMS's super-secret publisher forum?
Eosin the Red
First Post
Hey Morrus,
aren't you a publisher? You know the whole "Natural 20 Press" thing? Maybe you could get the wink, wink, nod, nod, in the SUPER SECRET FORUM at you know who's place.
aren't you a publisher? You know the whole "Natural 20 Press" thing? Maybe you could get the wink, wink, nod, nod, in the SUPER SECRET FORUM at you know who's place.
MEG Hal
First Post
Morrus said:
What forum????? ***whistles and walks away, never turning his back***
I sent this thread to the forum as a point of reference... do not know what if anything will happen, but it was sent. I agree with a lot of the sentiments about a 3 "average" is a solid score. I read reviews on stuff for the meat more then the score, I like to see what the good and the bad are as Psion and others put it. Even when my stuff gets a poor review, I feel it helps me see my stuff in a different light to hopefully improve or clarify information if that is what is needed. By the way, no matter how good a game product is there will always be some people who do not like it---oh well. You have to take the lumps with the sugar
.
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Jim Butler
Explorer
I think Hal, Doug, and Nicole have pretty much outlined my thoughts on reviews, but I'll spout off again just to hear myself. ;-)
Reviews are incredibly subjective, but they do offer players an insight into what the game product in question might have in store for them around their own gaming table. I certainly hope that anyone who is using reviews as a basis to determine if she wants to buy a product is checking more than one review.
As a publisher, you've got to become pretty thick-skinned about reviews of your products (because someone is always going to hate something you've crafted, and it's going to hurt when you read it). I worked for years on the Spellfire card game... trust me, I know painful reviews. ;-)
I hope the publisher in question takes a deep breath, counts to 10, and then looks for some other reviews out there that highlight the things they think are important in their game. Never let a single bad review of a product bring you down (but read reviews with an open mind to avoid making the same 'mistakes' in future products).
Now, back to adding shiny Benderesque robots to Alchemy & Herbalists. That fits the theme, right?
Reviews are incredibly subjective, but they do offer players an insight into what the game product in question might have in store for them around their own gaming table. I certainly hope that anyone who is using reviews as a basis to determine if she wants to buy a product is checking more than one review.
As a publisher, you've got to become pretty thick-skinned about reviews of your products (because someone is always going to hate something you've crafted, and it's going to hurt when you read it). I worked for years on the Spellfire card game... trust me, I know painful reviews. ;-)
I hope the publisher in question takes a deep breath, counts to 10, and then looks for some other reviews out there that highlight the things they think are important in their game. Never let a single bad review of a product bring you down (but read reviews with an open mind to avoid making the same 'mistakes' in future products).
Now, back to adding shiny Benderesque robots to Alchemy & Herbalists. That fits the theme, right?
Talaysen
First Post
I think it's a mistake to tie the rating system to such concepts as "average," "below average," "above," etc. Suppose you honestly believe that, say, 75% of the products you happen to review are of high quality - are you honestly going to give them a rating of "average"? Yet from what I'm hearing here, under a truly fair system the products you thought of as high quality in this hypothetical example would HAVE to be rated average, and the merely good ones would get a rating of BELOW average!
So ultimately, perhaps it's best to judge products on their own individual merits. d20 sourcebooks, in my opinion, should not be graded on a curve.
So ultimately, perhaps it's best to judge products on their own individual merits. d20 sourcebooks, in my opinion, should not be graded on a curve.
Eosin the Red
First Post
r/t ENworld reviews
Their are two problems as I see it. "Fanboys & Fangals" who rate all products 5. Then the opposite extreme, someone who thinks the product is overrated so I have elected themselves to correct it [see latest review of Witchfire, actually it isn't even a review it is a referral to Monte Cooks review with a score of 2, also the recent Librus review].
Are the numbers that important? How about a worth it/not worth it system?
I also know that there was talk of both weighted reviews and exclusion of highest and lowest marks before averaging? I think the latter at least would make most folks happy.
Just trying to be helpful - I will butt out now.
Their are two problems as I see it. "Fanboys & Fangals" who rate all products 5. Then the opposite extreme, someone who thinks the product is overrated so I have elected themselves to correct it [see latest review of Witchfire, actually it isn't even a review it is a referral to Monte Cooks review with a score of 2, also the recent Librus review].
Are the numbers that important? How about a worth it/not worth it system?
I also know that there was talk of both weighted reviews and exclusion of highest and lowest marks before averaging? I think the latter at least would make most folks happy.
Just trying to be helpful - I will butt out now.
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Jim Butler
Explorer
Re: r/t ENworld reviews
Getting rated 'average' is a painful review for most anyone; it's like getting a C on your term paper or coming in on the 51st percentile on your college exams. And no matter how hard anyone tries to change the rating system, these base instincts have been beaten into us since middle school.
I'm not endorsing the following system, but it's an option if you want to debate it...
One possible solution would be to review products like a term paper; start out at 100% and then deduct points from there. The reviewer would be required to list the deductions and the amount by category:
Adherence to 3e rules: -2% (a few skill points are off is all)
No Shiny Metal Robots: -50% (Arrgh! Where are my robots!)
Total Score: 48%
This way, people will be able to look at a review and have a better understanding about why a reviewer made the decisions he did regarding the product. It can be abused of course (like always deducting points for bad editing--there will ALWAYS be mistakes), but if you detailed the various categories and deductions allowed, it would give everyone a level playing field (along with a form of instant replay).
Eosin the Red said:
Getting rated 'average' is a painful review for most anyone; it's like getting a C on your term paper or coming in on the 51st percentile on your college exams. And no matter how hard anyone tries to change the rating system, these base instincts have been beaten into us since middle school.
I'm not endorsing the following system, but it's an option if you want to debate it...
One possible solution would be to review products like a term paper; start out at 100% and then deduct points from there. The reviewer would be required to list the deductions and the amount by category:
Adherence to 3e rules: -2% (a few skill points are off is all)
No Shiny Metal Robots: -50% (Arrgh! Where are my robots!)
Total Score: 48%
This way, people will be able to look at a review and have a better understanding about why a reviewer made the decisions he did regarding the product. It can be abused of course (like always deducting points for bad editing--there will ALWAYS be mistakes), but if you detailed the various categories and deductions allowed, it would give everyone a level playing field (along with a form of instant replay).
If I'd thought of that 18 months ago, I'd have done it. Problem now is that there are over 1000 reviews already done and scored, and no way to "port" the scores over to such a system.
I think the idea of removing the top and bottom scores is a good one; either that or just using the most common score (is that mode or median?)
I think the idea of removing the top and bottom scores is a good one; either that or just using the most common score (is that mode or median?)
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