(Re)Introducing players to the RULES

[Marchen]

So, I'm in sort of an odd rut at the moment. When it comes to the world of D&D, and tabletop RPGs in general, I have two distinct groups of friends that I play with. My main group, the game that I play as a PC character in, has been the gaming circle occupying the majority of my RPG time for the past few years. When we get together to play, we play D&D as a game first and a free storytelling system second. Campaigns, while story driven, are about out characters getting out there and adventuring ...engaging in dungeon crawls and tactical combat. We follow the rules all by the book. We go into the game realizing the intention is to play it almost like a "mission driven" game.

This is my preferred style. I like game rules. I like following them. I like keeping things flowing, nice and organized.

The second group, which I have "gamed" with far less often seems to follow the opposite. None of them really have a good working knowledge of the rules. There are NPCs who GMs let do things that aren't possible, spells that don't exist. Nobody bothers with things like character upkeep (eating, drinking, sleeping rules), tactical combat, or sometimes even precise spell rules. Monster and NPC stats are usually just made up arbitrarily.

Yet, I like to think there is some potential here. Some of the half-games I've played with them on occassion were at least entertaining for a bit. I would love to run a game for them, as the DM (since I don't get to DM normally). I'm just worried about getting everyone into the mode of, "Alright, this is an actual serious game that I want to invest some effort and thought into so I'm not just throwing away the DM's time."

It would be hard for me to just thrust them into a campaign with high expectations, telling them that they'd better know their rules...or else. I have no problem playing tutor and bringing them up to speed. After all, we all start somewhere.

So my question to the community is this: do you have any suggestions for ideas or types of modules/encounters that could benefit such an endeavor? I would really like to try and give the group at least a taste of what I consider "real D&D". It's just difficult to try and bring to them.

 

[shilsen]

First a question for you to consider: Do the other members in the second group seem like they're having fun? If they are, then it's quite possible that they have found their own version of "real D&D" and trying to educate them towards your tastes will be futile and/or actually hinder their enjoyment of the game.

 

[Bront]

There are some rules that get overlooked because they can and it doesn't hurt much (like upkeep, things like food and such). There are other rules that could be used a bit more precisely.

However, don't force the rules on players that would rather not use them. It may not mesh with you, but if they're having fun, is there harm in it?

 

[bento]

I dunno, if your second group enjoys playing with lax rules, they'll probably resent you if you tell them they aren't playing the game right.

I'd first ask yourself "what is it that I want to change with this group?"

- If it's because you can't stand playing a game with people who don't follow the rules, you need to chill. It doesn't sound like a problem with the other players.

- If the reason is because you think that some of the encounters could be improved then I'd say ask the DM if you can run an adventure for them. When you run the adventure, don't start with telling the others that they're playing their characters wrong, instead dazzle them with how you set the scene and run the encounters. Lead with the good stuff - by putting the rules into effect when you run the monsters to create a more challenging fight.

IMHO, when you're trying to change the behaviour of a group of people, you need to put into action the behaviour you want them to follow and praise when they do it. If you come across negative they'll resent you and ask you not to come back.

Good luck.

 

[Odhanan]

do you have any suggestions for ideas or types of modules/encounters that could benefit such an endeavor? I would really like to try and give the group at least a taste of what I consider "real D&D". It's just difficult to try and bring to them.

Start by running something that appeals to them, and then progressively make the game more about what you like. In other words, make their change easier on them: bring the game to them instead of bringing them to the game, so to speak.

For instance, you could start with something that involves more RP than tactics, like an investigation in a village, and then slowly introduce tactics in the game. First with a short combat involving a druid in the nearby wilderness to get clues as to what's going on, then with the second part of the adventure (finding the criminal(s)) that would involve an atmospheric dungeon crawl.

While in the dungeon crawl, describe things as to make them atmospheric and exciting. Describe smells, effects of light, dampness of the corridors, the spooky look of this or that thing. Don't spend minutes describing everything - it's a bit like creating good catch phrases for commercials: you can say a lot by using the right words and right tone/atmosphere.

During tactical combat, describe the actions of NPCs, the reactions of people to this or that action on the battlefield. The same way, create an atmosphere. The atmosphere makes it easier on your players to "digest" the tactical rules and choices.

As for the rules themselves, start with explaining AoO, and then introduce a special tactical choice per encounter or so. First a creature that grapples, then a big Ogre trying to sunder a weapon, and so on. You could encourage players to make cheat sheets or have some for you that you would lend to the PCs on occasion.

The whole thing is about gradually building on the experience they have to build on it and create a blend of styles satisfying to everyone rather than just "teaching them the right way" or trying to dismiss their previous experiences with RPGs.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

This might work. Just be prepared for the 'other group' to not like it. There are some things I like about D&D, and about any equal amout of stuff I don't like about it. One of those is that I find the RAW to be as much of a cause for breaking my suspension of disbelief as anything else. (The "what do you mean I can't do that?" syndrom, being one. For example, by the RAW, unless I put points into Knowledge: local, my character knows nothing about the area he grew up in!) And when my suspension of disbelief is sufficiently erroded the game isn't as much fun anymore. These guys sound like they're having fun without worrying about the rules. Now, some might find that playing by the RAW might be a revalation, but chances are that some/all will resent it.

 

[shilsen]

One of those is that I find the RAW to be as much of a cause for breaking my suspension of disbelief as anything else. (The "what do you mean I can't do that?" syndrom, being one. For example, by the RAW, unless I put points into Knowledge: local, my character knows nothing about the area he grew up in!)

Just for the record, you can make untrained Knowledge checks, but without actual training, you know only common knowledge (DC 10 or lower).

 

[Nyaricus]

I think you should have a sit-down with your second groups players and talk to them about how you want to run a D&D game with a different pace then your normal one, and discuss about how you want them to spruce up their rules knowledge.

Another thing you can do is simply force them into situations that necessitate them knowing the rules - they don't know much about grapple? Stick with a nasty grappling monster, etc. I know that's what I am doing with my players, since some of them *could* be better with the rules

 

[caudor]

I was in situation like that not long ago, although in my case we played without some rules simply because I, as the DM, had not mastered all the rules myself (or had difficulty tracking everything during actual play). My group always seemed to have a good time though, despite that.

After some intentive self-study and preparation, I simply asked my group if they would like to try a 'more by the rules game'; I was not sure what the response would be. It turned out my players were eager...in like...what took you so long? There were comments like: "Yeah, now those ranks I took in Knowledge arcana might be worth something now", or "does that mean we can keep track of all this food we have been carrying around?"

In the case of my group, things just went from good to better by more closely following the rules.