re: No 4E for Necromancer Games!

[Dias Ex Machina]

The GSL is much compliant to those with small product lines or for those wishing to break into the industry. Unlike 3.5, 4ED has not been saturated and thus allows for new and interesting ideas. Several companies have signed on (us included) to the GSL and I found out it makes us work harder to make something truly distinct and original. I have never regretted the idea and I was the most apprehensive to accepting the new rules. They may alter the GSL but probably only to adjust certain clauses about OGL reverse compatibility and the option to move your system to another ruleset if the GSL is ever altered or terminated. I don't suspect they will alter the SRD nor do I care personally if they do or not. The GSL may be more limiting than the OGL but it is still a royalty-free license to use another company's rules and logo. That's pretty big, especially considering that logo now sports the Dungeons and Dragons name on it. Way more than the D20 logo, the new one carries significant weight and was worth signing onto the GSL to be able to use.

 

[Ktulu]

The GSL is much compliant to those with small product lines or for those wishing to break into the industry. Unlike 3.5, 4ED has not been saturated and thus allows for new and interesting ideas. Several companies have signed on (us included) to the GSL and I found out it makes us work harder to make something truly distinct and original. I have never regretted the idea and I was the most apprehensive to accepting the new rules. They may alter the GSL but probably only to adjust certain clauses about OGL reverse compatibility and the option to move your system to another ruleset if the GSL is ever altered or terminated. I don't suspect they will alter the SRD nor do I care personally if they do or not. The GSL may be more limiting than the OGL but it is still a royalty-free license to use another company's rules and logo. That's pretty big, especially considering that logo now sports the Dungeons and Dragons name on it. Way more than the D20 logo, the new one carries significant weight and was worth signing onto the GSL to be able to use.

Well said....Ugh, I don't really have anything more to add aside from agreeing.

 

[Scribble]

I don't know if you'd consider us (Expeditious Retreat Press) a big publisher, but we're releasing a GSL 4e line called Lands of Darkness.

http://josephbrowning.livejournal.com/

joe b

That's AWESOME news for me.

Your Magical Medieval books are some of my favorite ones for d20. (And it's not really all that d20 specific so it's usable for 4e. )

 

[cnath.rm]

Not sure about that. Maybe the true tell is where are the Necromancer fans going mostly? D&D or Pathfinder.

I was hoping to start out a 4.0 campaign with a free download adventure from the Necro guys, just like I did with 3.0 way back when. Now aside from the PHB, I'm not feeling as much drive to switch over. (don't have a lot of time to plan/prep, and the Necro adventures almost always seemed to hit the flavor that I wanted.)

 

[BASHMAN]

Yeah, it looks like the GSL has served the purpose of being 3rd party killware. Anyone who signs it as is, is painting themselves into a corner (can't make OGL products anymore and GSL can be suspended at anytime w/o notice AND if you go back to OGL, and wizards sues you-- you have to pay THEIR legal bills if you win!). To anywone who still thinks that the GSL wasn't designed to drive companies out of business/keep them from making 4E stuff/bring them under control of WotC, I'd like to share a unique investment opportunity to you about a a bridge in Brooklyn coming on the market.

 

[frankthedm]

A third player, Kenzar, has decided to take the interesting route of putting out 4E compatible products without using the GSL. It will be interesting to see if the Hasbro lawyers sit still for that one.

Well, they have had legal battles with wotc before and came out ahead. The settlement over the unauthorized reprinting of the KotDT comic got them the rights to turn Basic, 1E and 2E into Hackmaster along withthe right to Use the D&D logo on the Kalamar material for several years.

 

[Dias Ex Machina]

Well said....Ugh, I don't really have anything more to add aside from agreeing.

Also well said, sir.

And let's not be alarmists here. GSL does not prevent a company from putting out OGL products, just not OGL and GSL under the same product line. So you can still have your game "McHobbitons" under 3.5 OGL and release "FluffyBunniesThatKill" under GSL. You just can't go back...and seriously, why would you want to? I mean don't be suprised if there is ever a 5ED, one of the clauses in IT'S GSL would be one to upgrade your GSL products from 4 to 5.

By the way, "FluffyBunniesThatKill"...trademarked.

 

[frankthedm]

Yeah, it looks like the GSL has served the purpose of being 3rd party killware. Anyone who signs it as is, is painting themselves into a corner (can't make OGL products anymore and GSL can be suspended at anytime w/o notice AND if you go back to OGL, and wizards sues you-- you have to pay THEIR legal bills if you win!). To anywone who still thinks that the GSL wasn't designed to drive companies out of business/keep them from making 4E stuff/bring them under control of WotC, I'd like to share a unique investment opportunity to you about a a bridge in Brooklyn coming on the market.

yep.

 

[AsmodeusDM]

While I am extremely disappointed in Necromancer Game's decision, I can understand it; the GSL is extremely rigid.

However, in that respect, it's rigidity, I can't blame Wizards of the Coast. After all they are a business and they are in business to make money. Presumably the intent of the OGL was to encourage a mass-market of products/adventures/support for their d20 brand and thus drive up sales of WoTC products while giving independent publishers the opportunity to make some money themselves.

In this regard the OGL was a complete success. But consider other d20 products like Malhovic's Arcana Unearthed (and it's successor Arcana Evolved) or Green Ronin's Mutants and Masterminds (and it's True20 evolution). These are d20 products for sure but consider this:

I ran a Mutants and Masterminds game for 10 months. I had four player's buy the Mutants and Masterminds rulebook. I had two player's pick up Ultimate Power supplement. I myself purchased the rulebook, the pocket version of the rulebook, the gamemaster's screen, Ultimate Power, the M&M Gamemaster's guide, and several adventures.

No one bought a PHB, a DMG, or MM. No Races of... or Complete... were purchased. WoTC did not make a dime out of my game.

And yet I had character sheets that had Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha. I had feats, I had skill ranks, I have Fort, Ref, and Will. There were DC's and an 18 Strenght meant a +4. And, of course, we rolled a d20. Sure there were changes to the game (really GOOD changes btw), but this was clearly a game based off of dungeons and dragons d20 mechanic. And yet WoTC derived (and would derive) zero cash flow from it. I had several player's who never even played D&D (and still haven't).

Did M&M or AU ruin WoTC financially? Of course not. But I can't imagine the profit margins in the RPG world are so vast that you can afford to give ANYTHING away.

If all the publisher's acted like Necro did... release adventures and/or support books that in all practical essence were WORTHLESS without a complete set of WoTC books at home.. I bet the GSL would equal the OGL.

 

[frankthedm]

sorry, misread a few things. post deleted