re: No 4E for Necromancer Games!

[portermj]

Yeah, it looks like the GSL has served the purpose of being 3rd party killware. Anyone who signs it as is, is painting themselves into a corner (can't make OGL products anymore and GSL can be suspended at anytime w/o notice AND if you go back to OGL, and wizards sues you-- you have to pay THEIR legal bills if you win!). To anywone who still thinks that the GSL wasn't designed to drive companies out of business/keep them from making 4E stuff/bring them under control of WotC, I'd like to share a unique investment opportunity to you about a a bridge in Brooklyn coming on the market.

If Necromancer's assessment that the OGL market has dried up is accurate, any 3rd party that relied mainly on D20 products painted themselves into a corner well before the GSL was revealed. They assumed that either WOTC would never make a new edition, or WOTC would OGL the new edition, or that there would still be a big market for 3rd edition once the new edition came out.

It seems like there are three choices for 3rd party publishers:

1. Create a new audience for either OGL D20 or a new game system.

2. Keep tapping into the existing D&D market by signing the GSL or by making OGL 4E products.

3. Negotiate an alternative license to the GSL with WOTC directly or wait for them to make it more liberal.

 

[pawsplay]

This surprisingly saddens me. I don't like 4e. I dislike the GSL so much I wish I liked 4e better so I would be motivated to release unauthorized products. But I feel bad for real fans of the game who feel hamstrung by the GSL, who want to contribute their creativity to the hobby but have been chased into the river by legal bugaboos.

Maybe WotC plans to open up the GSL anyway, maybe they just hoped if they stalled enough, they could take the legs out from under 3pp. That would not be a nice move.

 

[S'mon]

If Necromancer's assessment that the OGL market has dried up is accurate, any 3rd party that relied mainly on D20 products painted themselves into a corner well before the GSL was revealed. They assumed that either WOTC would never make a new edition, or WOTC would OGL the new edition, or that there would still be a big market for 3rd edition once the new edition came out.

It seems like there are three choices for 3rd party publishers:

1. Create a new audience for either OGL D20 or a new game system.

2. Keep tapping into the existing D&D market by signing the GSL or by making OGL 4E products.

3. Negotiate an alternative license to the GSL with WOTC directly or wait for them to make it more liberal.

Or do what Kenzer is doing and make 4e-compatible product while relying on the limitations in copyright and trademark law. As an academic IP lawyer (who also teaches UK contract law) I think Kenzer's approach is about as safe as, but less restrictive than, making 4e-compatible product using the OGL, Goodman's current approach.

Either are much safer and preferable to using the GSL, which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. I seriously think you have to be reckless with your business to sign the GSL unless you've had written assurance from WoTC that they will not actually enforce its terms. I'm glad Clark has finally accepted this.

 

[jgbrowning]

Really? I might be misunderstanding you Joe, but are you saying that the GSL is not designed for a 3pp 4e monster book, or are you saying that it is not designed for a book with other OGL monsters?

The latter.

joe b.

 

[Leif]

Continued 3.5e Products, please?

I wonder what it would take to covince the distributors and retailers that there are a large number of gamers out here who don't particularly care for 4e, PERIOD! Please don't desert us! We've already been pretty much thrown to the wolves. Hey! Here's an idea! HELP US!!! Keep putting out 3.5e material. If just one of two of you would do it, I predict that more people than you think would totally jump ship from Wizards.

 

[mxyzplk]

At this point it is just supreme arrogance on the part of Wizards that's keeping the GSL as is. The vast majority of third party publishers have rejected it (Goodman being the only notable exception). It's only finding acceptance among brand new "nothing to lose" publishers that are willing to accept its harsh terms for the possibility of success - and once they do, they'll find themselves in the dysfunctional position that many comic creators and musical acts find themselves in after selling their rights for a pittance to a corp.

Wizards thinks they don't need the 3p publishers. But they do. Who could get by with the one-per-year, sucky quality adventures Wizards puts out? Offerings like Return to the Demonweb were poorly executed jokes. And their almost complete abandonment of setting support. D&DI is on the clear path to nowhere, with "resources diverted from Gleemax" or not.

I don't know what additional evidence Wizards, or their boosters, require to see that this is the worst business decision the company has made post-Lorraine Williams.

 

[rounser]

I don't know what additional evidence Wizards, or their boosters, require to see that this is the worst business decision the company has made post-Lorraine Williams.

You're saying WOTC needs the quality of 3rd party products? I don't know where to start with that. For every gem, there was a huge pile of average, poor and really bad material that just sat on shelves and gathered dust, pissing off distributors and stores....isn't that part of the d20 history?

WOTC may be low quality at times, but at least they can hide that a bit with production values. You're right about the adventures, though, but people don't seem to have very high standards with regard to them. They like buying character powerup books and dreaming about campaigns that never will be, seemingly. We get what we deserve.

Maybe a really open and happy pdf-only license would have been good, because the pdf market is small anyway, right? Allow 3pps as non-printed material only. That would be best of both worlds - the fans and cottage industry get their creative expression without clogging up shelves, the internet hardcore D&D crowd gets their variety, and wizards sells it's books without competition or annoyed distributors. But that would assume that the opinions and desires of the internet hardcore crowd mattered, I guess.

And pdf is really ideal for adventures from a certain frame of reference, in that there's no pernicious page count restriction to worry about...

 

[GreyWanderer]

I wonder what it would take to covince the distributors and retailers that there are a large number of gamers out here who don't particularly care for 4e, PERIOD! Please don't desert us! We've already been pretty much thrown to the wolves. Hey! Here's an idea! HELP US!!! Keep putting out 3.5e material. If just one of two of you would do it, I predict that more people than you think would totally jump ship from Wizards.

This site lists companies that still support 3.0/3.5 - I ask that we continue to support their wonderful work:

http://www.myspace.com/dungeonsanddragons3e

Grey

 

[GreyWanderer]

3rd Edition Materials

I wonder what it would take to covince the distributors and retailers that there are a large number of gamers out here who don't particularly care for 4e, PERIOD! Please don't desert us! We've already been pretty much thrown to the wolves. Hey! Here's an idea! HELP US!!! Keep putting out 3.5e material. If just one of two of you would do it, I predict that more people than you think would totally jump ship from Wizards.

This site lists companies that still support 3.0/3.5 - I ask that we continue to support their wonderful work:

http://www.myspace.com/dungeonsanddragons3e

Grey

 

[GreyWanderer]

Yeah, it looks like the GSL has served the purpose of being 3rd party killware. Anyone who signs it as is, is painting themselves into a corner (can't make OGL products anymore and GSL can be suspended at anytime w/o notice AND if you go back to OGL, and wizards sues you-- you have to pay THEIR legal bills if you win!). To anywone who still thinks that the GSL wasn't designed to drive companies out of business/keep them from making 4E stuff/bring them under control of WotC, I'd like to share a unique investment opportunity to you about a a bridge in Brooklyn coming on the market.

Can I quote you in my Blog?

http://www.myspace.com/dungeonsanddragons3e

Grey