Re-watching the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe

[MechaPilot]

Yes, I said that. But I appreciate the repetition.

Did you? I didn't see that. I saw you call out non-core films, but you mentioned the Ed Norton Hulk film in there, and that film is part of the current MCU (they just recast the role between that film and Avengers). Some of the characters from that film are even coming back in Civil War. Thunderbolt Ross, and potentially Betty as well, are supposed to be in that movie.

 

[Crothian]

There is no separation. Despite Whedon not being happy with it, the company line is that Agents of Shield (AoS) is part of the MCU. From what I've heard, AoS is altered by events that come from the films.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Agents of Shield is altered and reacts to the movies. The movies never are altered or react to anything going on in Agents of Shield. The closest is in Avengers 2 when the hover carrier shows up. In AoS it is shown that Coulson helped with that but in the movie it looks like it was all Fury.

 

[MechaPilot]

It is part order, part common sense.

Think about it for a minute - the death of Coulson is used to motivate the Avengers. Fury uses that death to *push* them. What do the Avengers do if they find out they've been manipulated in that way? Likely not work with Fury any more, which is Bad. So, they keep Coulson's death quiet, at least for a while. Maybe, after time has passed, they can hear that he's alive and not blow a gasket over it. It is a problem with Fury's management style - he uses lies, and lies have to be maintained to work.

I get that. I did mention that he may have been ordered not to contact anyone. However, to people who don't follow Agents of Shield but have heard of Coulson's revival the lack of word from/about him in Age of Ultron sort of makes him seem like a dick. Now that's likely Fury's fault, as you mentioned, and I do wonder if it's going to come back around and rear its head in the films at some point.

If you don't watch Agents of Shield, then you don't know that Coulson is not entirely happy with it being a secret. He had a girlfriend he could not tell... and it becomes a point in an episode.

Yeah, I didn't know that, though it makes sense (I assume the girlfriend is the chellist Pepper mentions in the first Avengers film).

 

[MechaPilot]

You are looking at it the wrong way. Agents of Shield is altered and reacts to the movies. The movies never are altered or react to anything going on in Agents of Shield. The closest is in Avengers 2 when the hover carrier shows up. In AoS it is shown that Coulson helped with that but in the movie it looks like it was all Fury.

I get their execution so far. I do. However, AoS is part of the MCU regardless of what Wedon's feelings about it were or are. The fact that there hasn't been any influence on the films by events in the show doesn't mean that there can't be. it probably just means that Disney recognizes the need to give the movie writers greater free reign than the TV writers (likely because movies are a much greater investment of capital).

 

[Mercurius]

I was never an Iron Man fan. So when they started with him I was not as excited. Also, the idea that they would do a movie for each hero and then bring it all together into the Avengers was an interesting idea but I was not expecting it to work.

I was never an Iron Man fan at all, which is why Downey is so good - he makes the movies so enjoyable, even if you're not an Iron Man fan.

When comparing these to the X-men movies MCU does look better I think because they don't have any that are as bad as X3. But the X-men movies have mostly been just as good and doing some as period pieces in the past has been a great idea. I'd love to see MCU do that as well.

Two things. I think MCU works better as a whole because they planned it as a whole - with the phases and such. X-Men was planned more like the comics were written, with lots of retconning and craziness.

I sometimes wonder if The Last Stand was so bad because of folks like myself (and presumably you) that were imprinted by the Dark Phoenix saga, which in my mind is one of the greatest comic story arcs ever. That and the fact that X2 was so damn good. But yeah, X-Men 3 was one of the great nerd disappointments in media history, imo, perhaps only equalled by the horror that was Phantom Menace.

Agents of Shield is okay. Sure it gets better after the events of Winter Soldier but still it can only do so much because they restrict what can be on the show. I much preferred Agent Carter which was great and then of course Daredevil which was amazing.

I watched the first few episodes of Daredevil and thought it was OK, but don't love it. I'm leery of Agent Carter because I generally don't like stories set in the past of a main story line...it feels too much like you know how things are going to turn out.

Phase one was fun. They really got to the essence of each main character and allowed them to shine. Sadly the only villain of any note is Loki. If the MCU has failed at anything it is in establishing villains.

Yeah, I hear that.

Too much talking not enough smashing basically sums up the issues with Ang Lee's Hulk. It focused way too much on the daddy issues.

Which is probably why I liked it - more psychological depth, more origin story stuff, less all-out smashing. Smashing is fun, but gets a bit boring after awhile.

Thor, although one of the weaker entries in the MCU, was also pretty good. There's something almost Shakespearean about the relationships between Odin, Thor, and Loki. I will say that while Thor's buddy relationship with the male scientist (whose name escapes me right now) was good, I think the Jane character could have used a rewrite.

Totally agree - she was just too googly-eyed over Thor the whole time, with little agency of her own.

I greatly enjoyed the Avengers. It did have moments where it felt like it was too slow or where I just didn't care. I don't like Hawkeye in this movie. Before Age of Ulton, the only time I ever felt that I liked the Hawkeye character was during his appearance in Thor. They could have cut nearly every scene he's in out of the Avengers and it would have either been just as good or better than what we got.

Yeah, I also agree that Hawkeye was a bit bland or lacking something. Maybe it was the whole possession thing.

I'm giving this a separate line because it relates to both Avengers films. I'm really sick of films where the evil army can be entirely shut down by destroying a single ship or satellite or robot. Tony sets off the bomb, and the Chitauri all shut down. Kill Ultron, and all his drones shut down. And I know this isn't an MCU film and that Disney didn't own the property at the time, but the same thing happened with the droid army in the Phantom Menace. I'm sick of the evil army having a self-destruct button the heroes can punch to tie up all the loose ends.

I agree - it is a variation, or thinly-veiled version of Deux Ex Machina. I mean, even the Chitauri army wasn't quite as all-powerful as it could have been and just too easily defeated. Iron Man just pushes a nuke into that ship? Too easy.

Isn't Coulson kind of a dick? (Hear me out first)

Haha, well I'd have to watch Agents of Shield to form a judgment on that. But we can assume that he went and got nachos with Captain America off screen, no?

My thoughts:

Tough crowd, Morrus! You use some strong words, like "awful" and such. I'm wondering if you are holding too high of a standard to these movies, or is it that you just aren't crazy about comic book movies, or comparing them to your own idea of the characters? Etc.

That said, I agree with a lot of what you said, just with a milder feeling about them. Oh yeah, I think Guardians of the Galaxy was overrated. It was pretty good, but I don't get the complete love people have for it.

 

[Crothian]

The fact that there hasn't been any influence on the films by events in the show doesn't mean that there can't be.

Absolutely it is possible. It is also possible that we'll get a Squirrel Girl movie but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[MechaPilot]

Absolutely it is possible. It is also possible that we'll get a Squirrel Girl movie but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I don't know who Squirrel Girl is. Did she have a fling with Rocket Raccoon?


Seriously though, Marvel says AoS is part of the cinematic universe. I'm glad they've given their movie writers and directors enough room to do their job (unlike Fox who completely screwed up Trank's Fantastic Four) and not demanded that things from the show influence the direction of the films. If you're going to have movies and a TV show be part of the same universe, that's probably the smartest way to handle it (though not having them part of the same universe seems easier and less complicated to me).

 

[Morrus]

Tough crowd, Morrus! You use some strong words, like "awful" and such. I'm wondering if you are holding too high of a standard to these movies, or is it that you just aren't crazy about comic book movies, or comparing them to your own idea of the characters? Etc.

No. I like comic book movies just fine, as I do many genres of movie. The ones I called awful were awful.

If you want to gauge my tastes over the years, although this is very tangential to the thread: other awful comic book movies include Superman 3, 4, 5; Catwoman; the Schumacher Batman flicks; Ghost Rider; Green Lantern; The Punisher (entire series), Supergirl.

Great comic book movies include (as listed above) Iron Man 1, The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier; plus Superman 1 and 2; Spidey 1; the Nolan Batman trilogy, and Tim Burton's two Batflicks; X-Men First Class. I also felt Watchmen was good. Hellboy was pretty good (though the sequel was not).

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

Ang Lee's Hulk was absolutely terrible. I got to see it for free in the theater and I still wanted my money back.

Hulk poodles! Visually dark and confusing-as-hell climax. Nick Nolte. And a CGI Hulk that looked like an overinflated teletubby. Ugh.

 

[MechaPilot]

No. I like comic book movies just fine, as I do many genres of movie. The ones I called awful were awful.

If you want to gauge my tastes over the years, although this is very tangential to the thread: other awful comic book movies include Superman 3, 4, 5; Catwoman; the Schumacher Batman flicks; Ghost Rider; Green Lantern; The Punisher (entire series), Supergirl.

I actually liked the Punnisher with Thomas Jayne, but otherwise I agree with your list of awful comic book films.

Great comic book movies include (as listed above) Iron Man 1, The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier; plus Superman 1 and 2; Spidey 1; the Nolan Batman trilogy, and Tim Burton's two Batflicks; X-Men First Class. I also felt Watchmen was good. Hellboy was pretty good (though the sequel was not).

I like all of those, though I will say that there are parts of Superman II where the Richard Donner's work was corrupted by the other director. one fine example of this is the Superman's S becoming a giant plastic wrap net to trap the other Kryptonians.