Reach and AoO's: Cross, or Square?

[dcollins]

yeah but rolling dice IS the action! all gamers love to roll dice. ... no?

No. Not all gamers love rolling dice to the exclusion of all else.

 

[Negative Zero]

No. Not all gamers love rolling dice to the exclusion of all else.

seems to me that you're answering a question that wasn't asked.

~NegZ

 

[Kershek]

The crappy part about hexes is that they are longer on one end. Therefore, drawing dungeons looks skewed.

I generally prefer to change geometry in my D&D worlds such that a square's diagonal is the same length as its sides. This nips all these problems in the bud.

Oh... and about reach weapons not being able to attack on the diagonal - stupidest thing I ever heard.

Oh, one more thing... if 2 squares away on a diagonal is 15'... does that mean you can't take 5' steps across diagonals? Only makes sense, right? 15' away, take a 5' step, 10' away.

-The Souljourner

If you don't adjust a square's diagonal, then people will always try to use diagonals when possible since they get almost 50% free movement when doing so.

At least you're limiting the abuse when you allow 5' diagonal steps.

 

[NPC]

If you don't adjust a square's diagonal, then people will always try to use diagonals when possible since they get almost 50% free movement when doing so.

At least you're limiting the abuse when you allow 5' diagonal steps.

I don't see a problem here. If everbody gets to use diagonals for "free" movement, where's the abuse?

 

[Kershek]

I don't see a problem here. If everbody gets to use diagonals for "free" movement, where's the abuse?

It's the fact that you're moving 45 feet instead of 30 feet when you're on a diagonal. This doesn't bother you?

You can run for cover on a diagonal much quicker and that could change the outcome of an encounter. You start looking at the map for the diagonal shortcut cheat all the time.

 

[thegreatbuddha]

True, but so does the other guy.

That's like saying Ranged Weapons are broken if only one side has them. If the other side had the possibility to buy/steal them, and didn't, that's their own fault, and I hope they die from a punctured lung

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

more and more, I like the idea of using a gridless system and just saying 5'=1". problem solved, without bizarre manipulations of geometry. It helps that I've been playing a lot of Mage Knight lately.

With grids, I think 10' should be a square, and 15'+ a cross, with the greater reach always getting AoO regardless. If 10' is a cross, reach weapons just get way too weird.

 

[dcollins]

seems to me that you're answering a question that wasn't asked.

Then you are, once again, mistaken.

 

[The Souljourner]

If you don't adjust a square's diagonal, then people will always try to use diagonals when possible since they get almost 50% free movement when doing so.

Umm.. yeah. God forbid you should run in a straight line instead of zigzagging your way around everywhere. Thank you, I think being very slightly unrealistic on the diagonals is a hell of a lot better than making reach weapons have gaping holes in their threat range, and having to count some squares as 10' and some as 5', but only some of the time.

Like a lot of people have said - it doesn't matter. Everyone gets to move the same way, and it's a easy abstraction. Sure, it means you can run "further" on the diagonals, but how often does that really make a difference?

At least you're limiting the abuse when you allow 5' diagonal steps.

What abuse? We're not talking potions of time stop here... we're talking movement everyone can take advantage of equally.

If you really care about being completely realistic, you'll throw away the grid all together. I mean, it's not like we walk around all day with squares or hexes under our feet.

I play warhammer, I know how it works when you measure out distances and stuff.... it takes friggin' forever and there's tons of arguments about if guys are moved a quarter inch too much. Squares are so much easier, there's no guesswork, and everyone goes home happy.

-The Souljourner

 

[Negative Zero]

Umm.. yeah. God forbid you should run in a straight line instead of zigzagging your way around everywhere. ... Squares are so much easier, there's no guesswork, and everyone goes home happy.

i agree that squares are easier, but in actuality, you're not really zigzagging at all. if you want to move in a straight line you can and always do, as long as the path from the starting point to the ending point, is unobstructed. the fact that you must plot your distance with the grid, doesn't change the fact that you've moved in a straight line. the grid only keeps you from moving more distance than you're allowed to.

assuming a grid and
"S" = start, and
+ = open space, and
"E" = end, and
">" and "v" = movement,
if you move:

S>>v++++
+++>>v++
+++++>>E

you can still draw a straight line from your stat to your end points, unless there's a barrier. while you use the grid and the miniature to calculate the distance, the actual character doesn't have to move that way. she moves in the straight diagonal line between S and E, covering the same distance.

the point of the grid is to keep the amount of movement equal, consistent and fair. not to force the character to move only "within the lines."

*sigh* now on to the silly stuff, coz where's the fun if there's no silly stuff ... or maybe i'm just really antagonistic today ... i mean more than usual :

NegZ
all gamers love to roll dice. ... no?

dcollins
No. Not all gamers love rolling dice to the exclusion of all else.

NegZ
seems to me that you're answering a question that wasn't asked.

dcollins
Then you are, once again, mistaken.

if you recall, i never supposed that: "gamers love rolling dice to the exclusion of all else." that little (emboldened) addition was all yours, and also changes my statement. it is in fact possible to like rolling dice in addition to liking other things, y'know like roleplaying and such. so yeah, your answer was not appropriate as a correct response to my question. sorry but you fail this portion of the exam. please turn to the next page and ... good luck.

~NegZ