Reach

[frankthedm]

Check my diagrams. Other than the diagonals (which frankthedm is correct about, and thats my bad), thats how its done. A Large character with a Large Reach Weapon threatens two spaces, two spaces away. A Medium Character with a Large Reach Weapon threatens one space, two spaces away.

Nope. Monkey grip does not give that. The core rules do not give that. It is however a reasonable DM’s ruling on an unreasonable ability. It might be a good way to work it, but saying that is how it works is not exactly correct.

Reach Weapons
Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

Reach Weapons
Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more.

Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal Creatures
Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can strike up to double their natural reach but can’t strike at their natural reach or less.

And for what it is worth…[sblock=FAQ entry on monkey grip and reach in general]How do reach weapons work if they are of a different size than the creature wielding them? Say, an ogre wielding a Small or Medium glaive, or a human with the Monkey Grip feat wielding a Large ranseur? What is the reach for each situation?

A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach. An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large creature wielding a non-reach weapon). A human (Medium) wielding a Large or larger reach weapon could attack a creature 10 feet away (but no further), and could not use the weapon to attack a creature 5 feet away (as normal for a Medium creature wielding a reach weapon). A human wielding a Small reach weapon would gain no reach from the weapon.

The Player’s Handbook isn’t as clear on this as it could be, although an example of reach in action on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook provides pretty strong support: “A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away . . .” [italics added]. While this reference doesn’t mention the ability to wield a reach weapon larger than the appropriate size, allowing such a weapon to grant reach to its wielder is a reasonable extension of the spirit and intent of the rule. [/sblock]

 

[frankthedm]

Revisiting this subject.

I don't think of myself as rules lawyer, I think of myself as a rules constituitonal scholar.

Then I advise you to look at the precedence of the core rules centaur. The centaur, being a large creature, wields the same weapons as ogres and giants, and the centaur only retains his normal reach, 5’ with non reach weapons, 10 with reach weapons. If a large creature with the same reach as a medium creature does not gain additional reach wielding the weapons in question, there is little room to make claims a medium creature would.

 

[phindar]

This is weird, because I've been thinking about the centaur too (though I haven't been sufficiently motivated to post on it). I came down on the other side of it, though, the centaur is really considered a Medium creature with a Large body. Its a man-sized torso with man-sized arms, so it shouldn't really be able to wield an ogre-sized club or a Large longbow (which would be 10-12' tall). Being a Large long creature is kind of like that; you've got the mass of a large creature, but not the Reach.

By the logic of the game rules, a man wields a polearm that's about twice his height, and gets 5' of Reach from it. An ogre wields a polearm twice his height, and gets 10' of Reach from it. The centaur should wield (as Large, by the book) the ogre's 20' polearm, get 5' of Reach from it, and get no Reach from the Medium 10' polearm, which is appropriately sized for it's upper body. (The centaur is one creature that facing would help out on. In terms of threatening, it would be like a mount with a rider in the front hex rather than the rear.)

Anyway, this is going the long way round to say that the centaur is really a poor example when it comes to weapon size and reach, because from the waist up, its just a normal guy. The only thing I can say about centaurs is that they should get double damage on a charge with a lance. (If anybody gets it, centaurs should.)

Here's my argument for weapons giving the Reach of a creature of that size category:

A Medium creature is about 5' tall, and threatens within 5'. A Reach weapon of his size will be 10' long, and allow him to threaten the square 5' away.

A Large creature is about 10' tall, and threatens within 10'. A Reach weapon on his size will be 20', an allow him to threaten squares within 15-20', but not within 10'.

A Medium creature who takes the feat Monkey Grip can now use the ogre's 20' polearm, it makes sense to me that he would have more Reach than if he was wielding a polearm half that size. Thats the logic side of it. From a game balance standpoint, this makes the feat Monkey Grip more attractive, and while I don't think Monkey Grip is useless without the Reach, I've never seen a player actually take it so it could probably use the incentive.

If a centaur wants to wield a Large Polearm, he should take Monkey Grip. (He could call it Horse Grip if it made him feel better.) Otherwise, his man-sized arms and man-sized chest will have to make do with a man-sized weapon (and his man-sized appetite will have to make do with a Manwich, and maybe a side of hay).