Reading Group--Caesar's Legion

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Dig in Ulrick! Dig in!

Chapter III: Savaging The Swiss, Overrunning The Germans
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Quote, page 14:

"...then had his legionaries build a sixteen-foot earth wall for eighteen miles along the bank of the Rhone from Lake Geneva to the Jura Mountains."
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End Quote.

What a feat of engineering skill! Imagine how constraining to the enemy such a fortification would be! The Romans seemed to be absolute masters of integrating even small engineering field-fortifications into a battle in the field, regardless of terrain, and regardless of whether the Romans were on the offensive, or the defensive. This magnificent skill was decisive in so many battles that the Romans engaged in, even against opponents that greatly outnumbered them. Soemthing else indeed!



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Quote, page 23:

"Even though they had been unprepared to fight, the Germans opposite ran so quickly to the attack that the legionaries didn't evn have time to throw their javelins. Dropping them, they drew their swords as the two armies came together."
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End Quote.

The Germans seemed to display unflinching courage and zeal for battle at all times, regardless of the odds against them. Even then, over 2000 years ago, the Germans were famous for courage and awesome military skills!



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Quote, page 23:

"Undaunted, men of the 10th brushed aside the spears and literally threw themselves on the front line of the German shields. Some wrenched shields out of the hands of their owners. Others reached over the top of the shields and stabbed the points of their swords into German faces. Using these aggressive tactics, the 10th soon routed the German left."
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End Quote.

The Romans answered the German's courage with absolute ferocity on their own! What a scene! Imagine the smaller Romans, lean and muscular, screaming in fury as they threw themselves against the larger Germans again and again, unrelenting!



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Quote, page 23:

"King Ariovistus and one or two others escaped in boats. But all the rest, including the king's wives and daughters, were hunted down and killed or captured by the Roman cavalry. East of the Rhine, when the Suebi reinforcements heard of the disastrous battle, they turned and fled for home. The 10th Legion could add another victory to its growing roll of honour."
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End Quote.

What alignment would the Roman cavalry be as they rode down the women and children? They can be expected to have raped and slaughtered the German women and children with ruthless ferocity. The Roman commanders encouraged such ferocity and terror. Interestingly, in our modern times, some claim that such ferocity of domination and slaughter will only serve to harden the enemies resistance against you, and create more resistance. History doesn't seem to bare that idea out. In the Romans case, they just continued to rape, slaughter, and enslave, until there were no enemies left to resist. Any peoples that remained on the sidelines certainly didn't think to resist. They quickly got ont heir knees and scraped and begged for mercy before the Roman might. The Romans didn't give a damn what these other tribes and peoples thought. They just crushed them ruthlessly until they got on their knees and begged for the Romans to spare them. What a foreign policy that made!

Damn! The Romans are just relentless!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Reprisal]

Alignment

Alignment-wise, I would have to say that the Roman Legions trained their soldiers to obey orders almost reflexively. Therefore, it would seem that they are trained to take on a distinct Lawful-Neutral alignment. While some Legionnaires may be Good or Evil, collectively, the Roman Legions were very much Neutral along the Good-Evil axis. Their discipline shines through like nothing else...

In Chapter 4, I found the Eagle-Bearer something of an amazing character in and of himself, but I'm getting ahead of myself, hehe.

Great book, full of ideas,

 

[mmadsen]

"Undaunted, men of the 10th brushed aside the spears and literally threw themselves on the front line of the German shields. Some wrenched shields out of the hands of their owners. Others reached over the top of the shields and stabbed the points of their swords into German faces. Using these aggressive tactics, the 10th soon routed the German left."

Wrenching down shields and stabbing over the top, for the eyes. Love it!

Imagine the smaller Romans, lean and muscular, screaming in fury as they threw themselves against the larger Germans again and again, unrelenting!

Imagine what enough Goblins can do...

 

[Maldur]

After reading ahead a few chapters, I noticeda decline in descriptive combats. I hopethe book doesn't end in a dry list of : "Legion A moves to Place B where they fight Tribe C".

I have said it before and Ill say it again: "Romans keep suprising me on one thing: SCALE"

These people are scary!

 

[mmadsen]

After reading ahead a few chapters, I noticeda decline in descriptive combats.

Agreed.

I hopethe book doesn't end in a dry list of : "Legion A moves to Place B where they fight Tribe C".

As you'll see, the book starts to give more quick summaries of "offscreen" action, more examples of "maybe the 10th was there", etc. There are still good bits though.

 

[Rashak Mani]

>>> "King Ariovistus and one or two others escaped in boats. But all the rest, including the king's wives and daughters, were hunted down and killed or captured by the Roman cavalry."

What alignment would the Roman cavalry be as they rode down the women and children? They can be expected to have raped and slaughtered the German women and children with ruthless ferocity. The Roman commanders encouraged such ferocity and terror. <<<<<<<<<<

Seems thou that the Kings family is specifically mentioned in this quote (i dont have the book)... was it limited as a kind of punishment to the close allies and family of this King ? Or was it understood as a people wide campaign of terror ?

Most Governors in this time and age were ruthless... the peasants probably didnt care to much for any of them.

 

[mmadsen]

Chapter IV -- Conquering Gaul

It had been a short but profitable campaign for the men of the 10th. They had stripped thousands of dead Swiss and German troops.

This is sounding much more like D&D than I expected!

Caesar himself had gone to northern Italy to carry out his duties as chief judge of his provinces...

Something for high-level heroes to do besides plunder even meaner monsters' lairs.

Against him it was estimated that the tribes of the Belgae could muster 260,000 mean...

These numbers still amaze me.

The Nervii were a proud people, famous fighters originally from Germany who even barred traders from selling wine in their territory because they believed it made men soft...

Not the image I had of Germanic barbarians...

To further awe the Germans, Caesar then had his legions put a wooden bridge across the rhine, near modern Koblenz. Forty feet wide, according to Caesar it took just ten days to build.

Again, the engineering!

 

[mmadsen]

It seems like everything from Roman times just screams the word: EPIC.

All without any magic. At all.

 

[Black Omega]

Re: Chapter IV -- Conquering Gaul

"It had been a short but profitable campaign for the men of the 10th. They had stripped thousands of dead Swiss and German troops."

This is sounding much more like D&D than I expected!

Heh. It certainly did help espirt de corp(sp). Looting, pillaging andrapewere the tangible rewards legionnaires would get fighting for Rome.

"The Nervii were a proud people, famous fighters originally from Germany who even barred traders from selling wine in their territory because they believed it made men soft..."

Not the image I had of Germanic barbarians...

Barbarians always get a bad rap here in fantasy. If memory serves me correctly the German tribes were often more straightlaced than other barbarians. And quite a few barbarian tribes looked at Rome as decadant, at least in the Imperial period.

 

[mmadsen]

Chapter V -- Invading Britain

With tense expresssions, all on board the eighty transports and the dozen warships of their escort strained their eyes to study the foreign land ahead as the white cliffs of Dover began to shine luminously in the new day's light....On board the transports, locally built craft with relatively flat bottoms, high prows, and sterns and powered by just a single square saild each, were the Spanish legionaries of the 10th and 7th Legions, with an average of 150 mean to each troopship.

That's 80 men/transport x 150 transports = 1200 men. And now that we're getting used to Roman armies, that's a pretty small force.

Observing the ships from the heights were British tribesmen, cavalry and infantry, fully armed and waiting in their war paint -- their exposed upper bodies and grim faces daubed in wild, tattoolike pattern with blue-green woad, a plant dye.

Excellent visual -- and a great "special effect" for protective magic in D&D.

It was now that the aquilifer of the 10th Legion, the bearer of its eagle standard, took the step that was to immortalize him, although his name has not come down to us. No more than twenty-seven years of age, he probably uttered the Legionary's Prayer: 'Jupiter Greatest and Best, protect this legion, soldiers all,' adding, according to Caesar, 'May my act bring good luck to us all.' Then he went over the side with the eagle of the 10th.

Who doesn't love that? None of the armored troops want to jump into chest-high waters, but the standard bearer jumps right in -- and they can't let their standard fall to the enemy, can they?

The eagle of the legion, silver at this time, gold by imperial times, was venerated by its legionaries. Kept at an altar in camp with lamps burning throughout the night, it and the ground it stood on were considered sacred.

Now that's magic -- or what magic should feel like.

The British envoys now asked for peace. In return, Caesar demanded hostages.

There are so many things to do to losers besides kill them: enslave them, take hostages (to ensure their good word), etc.

The legion hadn't been at work many minutes when, out of the blue, javelins began slicing into the ground around the feet of bent and toiling soldiers nearest the woods. Moments later, with terrifying war cries, thousands of Britons came streaming from the trees...

Another great image!