D&D General Reading Ravenloft the setting

[Bedrockgames]

I know it's not popular, but I like the idea that most of the inhabitants of Ravenloft are actually shadows, who just go through the motions of living. And their tragedy is they think they are real people. Like robots who don't know they are robots. Thus, they are basically oblivious to anything out of the ordinary - they don't even notice when the person they are talking to isn't human. "That's a nasty skin condition you have there lad" to a PC dragonborn.

Well, I think it is one of two possibilities for Ravenloft. It certainly helps explain how places and people just seem to come into existence. I personally like the idea that the inhabitants are real people (it just feels a little off having them be ephemeral personalities); whether that is they are created by the mists and fully realized as a result or that they are drawn in from elsewhere somehow (i don't know, had their memories wiped). I'd like to at least think the people born in Ravenloft are real. But I do like this idea.

My only quibble is wouldn't them being self aware and thinking they are real, suggest they are real? Or are you saying they have minds like real people, but are literally made from shadow and more like an advanced AI robot that doesn't know it is real?

 

[Bedrockgames]

I fully understand where you're coming with this, and judging from what art we've seen, they're almost certainly going to be more nonhumans roaming around. I'm just one of those people who prefer a humanocentric* Ravenloft, so it kind of bugs me. To me, there's just something weird about seeing dragonborn and orcs and goblinoids as native to Ravenloft.

I am with you on this one. I do realize people who came into D&D after 3rd edition have grown very accustomed to a variety of non-human races at the table. Prior to this though, it wasn't even the norm for the party to be mostly demi-human (most groups I was in were usually mostly human with one or two elves or dwarves in them). But I think when it comes to Ravenloft, the human focus just works better than me. Having Dragonborn and Teiflings just makes it seem like....the dark crystal to me.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I suggest the idea of those "souless" later become "hosts" of reincarnated "isekai". It is even more dreadful when this isekai notices the dread domain is a "theme park" based in some famous fictional horror title, and she among other characters are "doomed". Do you know the horror-comedy "the final girls"?

 

[Remathilis]

I am with you on this one. I do realize people who came into D&D after 3rd edition have grown very accustomed to a variety of non-human races at the table. Prior to this though, it wasn't even the norm for the party to be mostly demi-human (most groups I was in were usually mostly human with one or two elves or dwarves in them). But I think when it comes to Ravenloft, the human focus just works better than me. Having Dragonborn and Teiflings just makes it seem like....the dark crystal to me.

I had the exact opposite: in 2e everyone was a demihuman because barring a few race/class combos, there was no downside to it. Few games ever got to level limits, and multi-classing was superior to dual classing. Human only became an option to non-paladins when 3e gave them bonus feats.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I had the exact opposite: in 2e everyone was a demihuman because barring a few race/class combos, there was no downside to it. Few games ever got to level limits, and multi-classing was superior to dual classing. Human only became an option to non-paladins when 3e gave them bonus feats.

Definitely didn't have that problem in my games. The bigger issue in 2E for me was people wanting to play dark elves because of Drizzt. I had one player who played dwarves a lot. Another who occasionally played an elf. Most other players seemed to go for human

 

[Stormonu]

The biggest problem with Ravenloft‘s xenophobia and magiphobia is the “Weekend in Hell” aspect of the original boxed sets. Until Domains of Dread, I don’t remember PCs being expected to actually be from Ravenloft itself, so it made the stark lack of demihumans and mob mentality towards magic (and the presence of firearms in more than one domain) stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[Istbor]

Well, I think it is one of two possibilities for Ravenloft. It certainly helps explain how places and people just seem to come into existence. I personally like the idea that the inhabitants are real people (it just feels a little off having them be ephemeral personalities); whether that is they are created by the mists and fully realized as a result or that they are drawn in from elsewhere somehow (i don't know, had their memories wiped). I'd like to at least think the people born in Ravenloft are real. But I do like this idea.

My only quibble is wouldn't them being self aware and thinking they are real, suggest they are real? Or are you saying they have minds like real people, but are literally made from shadow and more like an advanced AI robot that doesn't know it is real?

That last bit delves into consciousness and what makes a person a person. I don't know that anyone has that answer here.

I think it would add a perverseness and creepiness to discover that those folks from Barovia you ended up becoming friends with are just shades. Maybe they were real people once? Maybe the Dark Lord imagined them into being whilst trying to cope with their cursed existence. Or maybe the Powers willed created them as part of their perverted sense of justice.

It definitely makes it seem different if you think of it as only a prison of one, instead of whole populaces being punished for generations, for the actions of one or two individuals who happened to live nearby.

 

[Remathilis]

The biggest problem with Ravenloft‘s xenophobia and magiphobia is the “Weekend in Hell” aspect of the original boxed sets. Until Domains of Dread, I don’t remember PCs being expected to actually be from Ravenloft itself, so it made the stark lack of demihumans and mob mentality towards magic (and the presence of firearms in more than one domain) stick out like a sore thumb.

Completely. When your typical party was pulled from whatever normal campaign setting and tossed into a world where they had to hide their magic, race and other details from the locals, it heightened the isolation of the setting. And it worked because usually you'd adventure in a Domain for a while and escape. As a place expected to generate PCs however, it was crippling. It meant demihuman PCs were a liability in all but a few domains, restricting the kind of stories you could tell.

 

[Remathilis]

From Ravenloft Travel Agency on Twitter...

 

[Alzrius]

I had the exact opposite: in 2e everyone was a demihuman because barring a few race/class combos, there was no downside to it. Few games ever got to level limits, and multi-classing was superior to dual classing.

Most of my 2E players ran human characters, though exceptions weren't uncommon. I once pointed out what you noted, about how demihumans were better in the short term and most of our campaigns didn't make it to the higher levels, asking why they consistently went for human characters when they never got to cash in on the long-term "disadvantages now, advantages later" aspect of human characters.

What they told me (though I'm obviously paraphrasing a great deal) was that they were always planning for the long-term viability of their characters, i.e. treating every campaign (unless being told up front that we were running a one-shot, or that the campaign would only go to a certain level and then end) as if it were the one where they'd finally hit the high levels.

It wasn't entirely pragmatic, either. Several players had an aversion to the very idea of their character eventually being hit with a hard cap (or at least, one that was lower than other PCs). I never quite understood their position, but it rubbed them the wrong way even as a conceptual limit that virtually never came up in the course of the game.