Really, what good are daggers?

[Ferret]

Blades go through bodies, daggers go into the body.

 

[Emirikol]

I think my main argument about daggers is just that the damage is so pathetic. You're better off running away than trying to take down any NPC over 3rd level, nevermind anything higher than that. Also, in any situation where you might 'need' a dagger, it's still pretty much worthless because the damage is so low.

For example:
* Silvered dagger vs. werewolf. Really? You'd be dead by the time you did any kind of damage to the werewolf
* purple worm belly. Those 4 points of damage might really help you escape right?
* Concealment. Again. If this is all you've got...you're doomed unless you're fighting kobolds.
* Thrown: OK, you just threw away your weapon. So, you 've got three more. The fighter just did 88 points of damage. You did one point. Pathetic.

Personally, I think that these weapons should have dramatically expanded critical ranges (maybe like 15-20).

jh

 

[kommisar]

Good for tunnel work

Hi-

Dagger would be the preferred weapon for a tunnel fighter because of its small size and ability to be used for thrusting. Because its small it does not detract from the tunnel rat's ability to manuever through tight squeezes (strangely enough these rarely appear in adventures when they should be quite common). Because it can be used as a thrust weapon it also can be used when fighting on hands and knees or when lying prone - crucial fighting stances for the more restricted spaces.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Daggers. Small. Easy to hide in places where weapons are frowned upon. Easy to throw. Good backup weapons should your primary weapon get knocked away from you in battle. Lower level spellcasters can typically move a dagger to another PC in combat if they need one.

This happened to me once. The other spellcaster in the group ran out of spells. He carries no weapons as he normally hangs back and casts. So I used Mage Hand to get a dagger to him. Most other weapons would have been too heavy for Mage Hand to work.

Did your group then mock you and tell you to cast a fireball next round instead?

 

[maddman75]

Daggers are easily concealable.
Daggers are easy to use.
Daggers are cheap to make.
Daggers are useful as tools (try cutting a bound friend free with your greatsword!)
Daggers are found everywhere
Daggers make a great off hand weapon
Daggers are light weapons even to small characters. (and speak not of the nonsense printed in the Revision. If elven sized daggers making for good hobbit-sized shortswords is good enough for JRR Tolkien, it's good enough for me)

 

[d20Dwarf]

Daggers are easily concealable.
Daggers are easy to use.
Daggers are cheap to make.
Daggers are useful as tools (try cutting a bound friend free with your greatsword!)
Daggers are found everywhere
Daggers make a great off hand weapon
Daggers are light weapons even to small characters. (and speak not of the nonsense printed in the Revision. If elven sized daggers making for good hobbit-sized shortswords is good enough for JRR Tolkien, it's good enough for me)

You really should get a one-panel cartoon to go along with these just like those "Love is..." cartoons in the paper.

"A dagger is...never having to give up your weapon at the door."
"A dagger is...doubling your sneak attack damage even without haste."

 

[Victim]

I think my main argument about daggers is just that the damage is so pathetic. You're better off running away than trying to take down any NPC over 3rd level, nevermind anything higher than that. Also, in any situation where you might 'need' a dagger, it's still pretty much worthless because the damage is so low.

For example:
* Silvered dagger vs. werewolf. Really? You'd be dead by the time you did any kind of damage to the werewolf
* purple worm belly. Those 4 points of damage might really help you escape right?
* Concealment. Again. If this is all you've got...you're doomed unless you're fighting kobolds.
* Thrown: OK, you just threw away your weapon. So, you 've got three more. The fighter just did 88 points of damage. You did one point. Pathetic.

Personally, I think that these weapons should have dramatically expanded critical ranges (maybe like 15-20).

jh

Base damage isn't nearly as significant once you start considering damage modifiers. Sure, a dagger is d4 compared to a short sword's d6 or a longsword's d8. So a dagger averages about 70% of the damage of a short sword.

But then throw in a +4 damage mod from STR, enchancement bonus, spec, etc. The dagger is up to 87% of short sword damage. Let's say you're rogue with +1 weapons and 3d6 sneak attack - the dagger is now up to 93% of short sword damage. At this point, you have to start weighing the fringe benefits of the dagger. With a large damage bonus, the mariginal effect of the 1 point difference diminishes.

If you'll do lots of damage per hit, that 1 point difference isn't so important. And you might start looking for ways to apply that large damage more often, perhaps by bringing weapons in places you wouldn't normally be allowed them, or a last ditch throw - or throw daggers until they get close, then stab so you get double use out of your dagger related feats.

 

[tetsujin28]

Not to mention that in most places a dagger would be considered a normal tool, and a shortsword a weapon. You might not be able to walk around town with your normal stuff, but you'll always have your trusty dagger.

 

[Aaron L]

Try cutting your dinner with a longsword.

Really, are you serious? Daggers are a real and important historical weapon, and you can't figure out why they are in D&D?

 

[MacMathan]

So do you feel short swords are also pathetic? They only average a whopping 1 more point of damage, face it in DnD it is the bonuses that you can put behind a weapon that makes the difference.

Dagger guy with a 14 str averages just as much damage as longsword guy with a 10 str. It is having a weapon that you can use at all that makes the difference, unless you are a monk

Let's go back to that werewolf example, longsword guy mentioned above can hack away all day and will never damage the beast without a lucky crit. His silver dagger wielding friend will be doing just fine. It can be pretty hard to outrun a werewolf

Daggers are easily concealed, cheap, more affordable in silver and other metals than other bladed weapons, offer a decent crit range, and usable at range. I think pretty much every character IMC right now has one as a back up.

Sure, Victim explain better than me why dont ya