Reasonable cost for Save expertise

[Blue]

Just a quick one this time.

Assuming a new subclass being designed to run with the existing classes, foes, etc. With the standard "one good strong save, one good weak save, and four proficient saves" that is the current paradigm, would having expertise (doubled proficiency) on one save be game-breaking? You still have four unproficient saves. (Which break bounded accuracy in the downward direction already.)

What depth of opportunity cost would you expect a player to give up for it?

For example, would a Fighter giving up Second Wind for expertise in CON saves be a reasonable trade off? (I'm not worried about that particular example per se, more like what's a reasonable example feature to give up to get it.)

 

[Fanaelialae]

I don't think it would be game breaking. You'd be pretty unlikely to fail your expertise save, but in the end it is just one save of six. Granted, I believe Con saves are the most common save you're likely to have to make, but it won't help when someone tries to dominate the character or they're targeted by an illithid's mind blast.

It is potent so I could see, for example, it being the only thing that that class grants at whatever given level you gain it at. I think it would be appropriate at tier 2 or 3. There are much better abilities however (I think the monk's Diamond Soul is far superior).

 

[TwoSix]

Other than CON save expertise for casters, it isn't that powerful. I mean, paladins get something similar to low-level expertise on all 6 saves at 6th level (+Cha modifier will be a +2-3 for most 6th level paladins, which is the same bonus as 6th level expertise, and it stacks with proficiency bonus). And while it's pretty much the best defensive ability in the game, outside maybe some spells, no one is saying paladins are brokenly overpowered because of it. So getting 1/6 of that for one character isn't that bad.

Now, purely on your hypothetical "Second Wind for Con save expertise", I would definitely see Fighter 2 being an even more popular dip for most character classes. Fighter 1 is already a pretty popular dip for Con save proficiency and Weapon and Armor Proficiencies; getting a double bonus on Con plus Action Surge would be pretty tempting.

 

[Horwath]

i would say it would be a full feat.

 

[Quartz]

As [MENTION=205]TwoSix[/MENTION] indicates, this could be very powerful in a multi-class situation.