D&D 5E Reckless Attack / Mirror Image

jgsugden

Legend
This is one of those situations where I'd rule against the RAW. You and your illusionary selves are recklessly attacking and putting no defense effort in to protect yourselves. If the illusions are less reckless than you, then you are easy to identify and target. I'd have the advantage apply to you and the illusions.
 

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KarinsDad

Adventurer
Unfortunately that doesn't work as written. Rage ends at the end of your turn if you have not made an attack or taken damage, so you're spending your bonus action to start a rage which then immediately ends. You could make it work by provoking an opportunity attack during your turn, though, assuming it hits; or you could just cast Blink on one round and then do Rage + Attack on a subsequent round.

Thanks for that. I knew that, but my old brain forgot. :blush:
 

I suspect that, if a DM were to rewrite or rebalance the Mirror Image spell, he would have to start by describing, exactly, what the spell does in the fiction, and then attempt to model that.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
This is one of those situations where I'd rule against the RAW. You and your illusionary selves are recklessly attacking and putting no defense effort in to protect yourselves. If the illusions are less reckless than you, then you are easy to identify and target. I'd have the advantage apply to you and the illusions.

What exactly is "putting no defense effort in to protect yourself" in the rules though?

That is a "made up" phrase that is often used in D&D discussions to try to explain rules. Or to try to explain why a rule should be changed in xyz scenario.

So, if my PC is prone and my images are prone, prone applies to the images? It might seem obvious, but it's not a simple answer.

Do Major Images of a prone creature get prone disadvantage bonus versus ranged attacks if a target attacks them? If so, why does an image of a creature get a prone disadvantage vs. ranged whereas an image of a rolling pot (same overall relative size or even smaller from attackers point of view) does not?


How about Blur? Are the images blurred too and foes get disadvantage against them? If one combines Blur with Mirror Image, do the Mirror Image spells get more powerful and useful?

As mentioned earlier by Hemlock, Mirror Image is just plain messed up as a spell. It should convince targets that any of the targets are real, hence, any type of attack and defense should apply the same (i.e. which image do you target with Hold Person?) and all of the normal rules should apply as if they were creatures. The power of Mirror Image should be in the fact that it is an illusion and foes do not know which image to grapple, shove, swing a sword at, or cast any spell at. The image should have all of the defenses of the PC, abet lower (like lower AC, lower bonuses to save and ability checks, etc.) and practically any type of attack action or offensive spell (except area effects) should be able to pop one of them. That being the case, then yes, advantage and disadvantage would apply as if it were the PC and Magic Missile could wipe them all out with a single spell. But without those types of corrections to Mirror Image, cherry picking which effects (yes to Reckless Attack, no to Blur/Haste) seems overly subjective.


As a matter of personal taste (on the subject of prone), I have never understood why archers get disadvantage on prone foes. That rule does not make sense. The foe is moving around less (a lot less mobility than standing) and should be easier to hit, even if it might be a slightly smaller target (if head or feet are facing the archer), or basically the same size if the target is perpendicular to the archer.
 

I suspect that, if a DM were to rewrite or rebalance the Mirror Image spell, he would have to start by describing, exactly, what the spell does in the fiction, and then attempt to model that.

I'd probably just go with saying, "The spell produces multiple illusionary versions of the spellcaster, all apparently acting independently and simultaneously, but all remaining within 10' of the true spellcaster. An illusion which is targeted by a spell, an attack, or other phenomenon which ought to violently affect it does not respond to the phenomenon--instead, it simply vanishes." Then use the existing 5E verbiage about AC, how to determine if an image is targeted, etc.

The big difference here is that (1) the spell works against spells like Disintegrate now; (2) conversely, Fireball will take out all the images. I believe this is how it worked in AD&D.

I'd probably also toss in some verbiage to clarify that creatures which close their eyes are unaffected by Mirror Image for as long as their eyes are closed. May seem obvious, but doesn't hurt to be explicit.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
I'd probably just go with saying, "The spell produces multiple illusionary versions of the spellcaster, all apparently acting independently and simultaneously, but all remaining within 10' of the true spellcaster. An illusion which is targeted by a spell, an attack, or other phenomenon which ought to violently affect it does not respond to the phenomenon--instead, it simply vanishes." Then use the existing 5E verbiage about AC, how to determine if an image is targeted, etc.

The big difference here is that (1) the spell works against spells like Disintegrate now; (2) conversely, Fireball will take out all the images. I believe this is how it worked in AD&D.

I'd probably also toss in some verbiage to clarify that creatures which close their eyes are unaffected by Mirror Image for as long as their eyes are closed. May seem obvious, but doesn't hurt to be explicit.

I'd change it to "single target" effects (any spell that targets a single creature or attack / shove). I like the idea of there being 3 singed illusions of the Fireball singed caster.
 

I'd change it to "single target" effects (any spell that targets a single creature or attack / shove). I like the idea of there being 3 singed illusions of the Fireball singed caster.

That could work too (and is quite funny). I'm probably being influenced by old AD&D memories though--in any case, I'd save that variation for a higher-level spell than 2nd level.

Say, a 4th level version that responds "correctly" to AoE attacks and also includes an aural component (and can thus fool creatures with their eyes closed or with blindsight).
 

Arial Black

Adventurer
Unfortunately that doesn't work as written. Rage ends at the end of your turn if you have not made an attack or taken damage, so you're spending your bonus action to start a rage which then immediately ends. You could make it work by provoking an opportunity attack during your turn, though, assuming it hits; or you could just cast Blink on one round and then do Rage + Attack on a subsequent round.

No. The rage does not end at the end of your turn if you have not attacked or taken damage since the start of your own turn.

Rage "ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then".

Therefore, if you use your action to cast mirror image and your bonus action to Rage, then you are not in danger of losing Rage early until the end of your next turn.

Rage doesn't switch off the moment you turn it on just because taking a bonus action to begin a Rage was the last thing you did this turn! Rage doesn't take into account the things you did/didn't do before your Rage even began! It only cares about what happens while you are Raging!
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
That could work too (and is quite funny). I'm probably being influenced by old AD&D memories though--in any case, I'd save that variation for a higher-level spell than 2nd level.

Say, a 4th level version that responds "correctly" to AoE attacks and also includes an aural component (and can thus fool creatures with their eyes closed or with blindsight).

The issue I see is that there are a lot of AoE attacks in 5E. What good is a defensive spell that can be totally dispelled and have zero net defensive effect because some hedge wizard has Thunderwave or some Shaman has Spike Growth? Casting a defensive spell in 5E is kind of like casting a Healing spell. The caster is already at a bit of a disadvantage because offense typically trumps defense in 5E (with some rare exceptions like Greater Invisibility).

Magic Missile or Scorching Ray is fine because the defensive spell actually does something defensive. Each image popped prevented the Mage from getting popped.
 

No. The rage does not end at the end of your turn if you have not attacked or taken damage since the start of your own turn.

Rage "ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then".

Therefore, if you use your action to cast mirror image and your bonus action to Rage, then you are not in danger of losing Rage early until the end of your next turn.

Rage doesn't switch off the moment you turn it on just because taking a bonus action to begin a Rage was the last thing you did this turn! Rage doesn't take into account the things you did/didn't do before your Rage even began! It only cares about what happens while you are Raging!

Read the words you just wrote.

<<Rage "ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then".>>

Is your turn ending? Yes.

Have you attacked a hostile creature or taken damage since your last turn? No.

Therefore, Rage ends.

<<Therefore, if you use your action to cast mirror image and your bonus action to Rage, then you are not in danger of losing Rage early until the end of your next turn.>>

You just made that up out of whole cloth. That's not what the rule you just quoted says.
 

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