Recommend a Skill-Based Magic System

[airwalkrr]

Basically, I'm wondering if a skill-based magic system is possible without major adjustments to the RAW. Primarily, I am interested if there is a skill-based magic system that utilizes Spellcraft, because as written there isn't much point in getting more than about 10 ranks in Spellcraft unless you are playing an epic campaign (and if that's the case you just max out the skill shortly before going epic and you're good).

I've heard people reference skill-based magic systems before, but I don't know of any in particular. Any recommendations?

 

[DwelleroftheDeep]

I'm a cheap skate who also loves skill based magic so for my home system I cannibalized the XPH which I already had, and can be found in SRD form at the WOTC site. It works like this:

Two main skills- Power and Manifester/Caster
Power is used for determining your power points and countering (Or redirecting) spells
Manifester/Caster- For making the check to cast spells and determining how many spells you know

Power- 5 pp per rank, countering magic with a prepared action, DC 5+Spells casting check result

Manifester- 1 spell per rank, with the first 5 ranks being first level powers only, the next 2 allowing up to second level and the next 2 allowing up to 3rd level, the 2 after that allow up to 4th level and I think you can guess the rest.

The Cast DC for a power is equal to twice it's power level +1/Desired Caster level, +10

When you cast a power you make a Manifester check against the chosen DC with one twist: Rather than a simple pass/fail you compare the results to the DC on a table I can't quite remember at the moment but basically you lose fewer power points the more you beat the power DC by and you lose more the more you fail it by.

That's my system and I find it's fairly balanced though perhaps it's unfair to non-casters I've never had big issues with it.

EDIT: Sorry I got carried away and didn't even read you're whole post. I guess substituting spellcraft for the manifester skill could help this a little but I'm guessing you want the D&D spell lists so please forgive me.

 

[Yair]

Ars Magica. "All other magic systems are just pale imitations", oooi.

Seriously, I have zero experience in the area. However, Legends of Sorcery or Grim Tales both provide a magic system that is skill based and still relies on PHB spells, so might be worth a look.

If you want to stray further afield, Green Ronin's The Psychic's Handbook presents an add-on skills-and-feats based system, as does their brand new True Sorcery. Elements of Magic (Mythic Earth or Revised) is also a similar option.

I don't know much about any of these, but a quick search through the reviews database should help you with that.

Yair

 

[kingpaul]

Legends of Sorcery doesn't deviate from the RAW to much. Each class gets a Base Magic Bonus (BMB) that determines their casting ability. You roll each time you cast (no more memorization) to see if the spell goes off.

 

[jcfiala]

Basically, I'm wondering if a skill-based magic system is possible without major adjustments to the RAW. Primarily, I am interested if there is a skill-based magic system that utilizes Spellcraft, because as written there isn't much point in getting more than about 10 ranks in Spellcraft unless you are playing an epic campaign (and if that's the case you just max out the skill shortly before going epic and you're good).

I've heard people reference skill-based magic systems before, but I don't know of any in particular. Any recommendations?

I've heard good things about what Green Ronin has done with skill-based magic, although I'm unsure which books you should read for that. Possibly the Advanced Player's Guide?

That said, there are things to do with spellcraft that requires more than 10 ranks. There's forensic magic (what magic could have created this odd item, what did I just save against, what odd magical effect am I seeing), there's potion identification (DC 25), and then there's several feats and effects in various books that give spellcraft a workout.

 

[Henry]

True Sorcery is skill-based, and works pretty darned well, based on my experiences with it in the Black Company Campaign Setting.

 

[JohnSnow]

I'll echo the endorsement of True Sorcery, but it is a MAJOR change to the RAW.

For something skill-based but less drastic, check out the rules for Skill-based Spellcasting, originally published in Advanced Player's Guide from Sword & Sorcery studios, and republished in the Year's Best d20 - 2004 by Malhavoc Press. I personally got it from the latter, rather than the former.

It overlays a Spellcasting skill with higher DCs for higher level spells onto Core spells. Less flexible than the system from True Sorcery, it also doesn't change the Core Rules as drastically. I haven't tried it in actual play, but it looks okay, and Monte Cook thought it was well-thought out, if a bit on the powerful side. There are tweaks to downpower it.

Green Ronin's Thieves' World Players Manual also has a nice semi-skill-based system that's worth looking at.

Finally, Enworld's own Elements of Magic presents skill-based magic in a couple of variant systems. My personal favorite is Elements of Magic - Mythic Earth, a d20 Modern supplement adaptable for any d20 game.

Hopefully, one of those will be to your liking.

 

[arscott]

Actually, Only Mythic Earth is primarily skill based. The previous versions use a system more akin to the core psionics and magic rules. Mythic Earth is pretty easy to adapt to fantasy games, though.

As far as Green Ronin stuff, another one to check out is their system for blue rose/true20. From what I understand, it's an adaptation and revision of their Psychic's Handbook with less emphasis on psychic powers.

I myself have been using the Psychic Handbook, along with the SFX Skills PDFs for my d20 Modern game, and to great success. The SFX skills products aren't really designed for traditional fantasy games, though.

 

[Peterson]

The SFX skills products aren't really designed for traditional fantasy games, though.

No, they're not. While I didn't write them (that would be Heap), I do know them fairly well and I never got the impression that Heap was writing them for a fantasy-based game (more like a D*M game).

However, I - myself - have recently began going through the MSRD Spells and converting them to a SFX Skill-based mechanic, with a few minor (but game-affecting) differences. If I ever get a chance to get back to them and clean a few up, I'll post a few examples. Makes d20 Modern a pretty decent "Fantasy game system" when done that way, and allows you to have a "High magic feel, with low magic mechanics", IMHO.

Peterson

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea, SFX Skills are coming at magic from a modern angle, mostly. That's the direction they're written from, anyway.

Not that a fantasy game couldn't make use of them, but it wouldn't be very "D&D" fantasy ... more like a gritty sort of Sword'n'Sorcery yarn.

I WOULD say that a very similar system to what the OP is looking for, however, is the Incantations system ... it uses Knowledge (Arcane Lore) as the core skill, however.

But that could be easily changed. It's something I contemplated toying with in the past ... making an Incantations-based magic system that worked from 1st-20th.

--fje