Recommend Alternative Alignment Systems

Plane Sailing said:
Then you probably wouldn't be interested in the most excellent system I've come across recently, in Conan d20.

Characters can choose to have a Code of Honour or be Honourless. Those with a Code of Honour will have either a Barbaric Code or Civilised Code(?) depending upon their background....
...The civilised guy with no code of honour can betray either of them at a moments notice.

Cool.

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Really, since alignment is all based on role-playing I've never seen any reason to chart it. If you start playing your character evil, then you change his alignment to evil.
The only time it matters is for classes w/alignment restrictions, and then it's all the DM's call anyway.
Why add a lot of math?
 

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Thanks for the replies everyone.

Actually Plane Sailing, that version of alignment sounds pretty cool.

How would it translate into a "typical" DND game though?

Namely, alignment based effects such as good,evil,etc.
 

conanb said:
Basically they have two axis for their alignment system, Lawful/Chaotic and Good/Evil.-Alex P

I tried a similar system, and then corresponded the values to a RGB color wheel. Thus when detect alignment was cast I simply had the computer screen fade to the appropriate color. It was fun, but I never got the bugs worked out before dropping alignment altogether.
 

dreaded_beast said:
Thanks for the replies everyone.

Actually Plane Sailing, that version of alignment sounds pretty cool.

How would it translate into a "typical" DND game though?

Namely, alignment based effects such as good,evil,etc.
IANPS, but I'll interject here and say that... well, it wouldn't translate. The honor ("honour") system in Conan is very, very cool, but it's designed to account for a very different type of conduct than that assumed in the standard D&D game (if there is such a thing), or in traditional high-fantasy paradigms such as LotR, the Belgariad, or FR. The characters in REH's books don't really follow notions of "good" or "evil"; by D&D standards, even Conan himself, the hero, might barely rate CN at times. Thus the Conan d20 honor system, which IMHO exactly captures the feel of REH's character "ethics." Not as useful for a standard D&D game, though.

The gist I'm getting from this thread is that point systems seem to be the favored solution. I use a more informal system similar to this, which fits into my overall "chip system" (used for bonus XP, fate points, and alignment). In short, I award white chips for truly good acts and black chips for evil acts. Multiple unsavory acts or multiple small acts of kindness may warrant a chip, whereas a truly saintly or heinous act will result in a shower of white or black chips upon the player's station, as appropriate. At the end of each session, players turn in their chips for good and evil points. The difference between black and white chip totals (or vice versa) is used to determine the number of points received, with one exception: A PC who earns three or more black chips at any point during a session must turn in all white chips. This represents the fact that at some point, no matter how many good deeds you try to perform to balance out the dark ones, you're still corrupted.

Good points are treated as your Aura of Good for the purpose of detect good and similar effects; vice versa with evil points. Smite, holy aura, and similar abilities work only against a target with five or more points in the appropriate alignment.

Additionally, players who have five or more good points, and earn at least one good and no evil points in a session, gain a +1 bonus to Will saves for the next session. This can repeat indefinitely, though it does not stack.

NPCs are assumed to have fewer than five points in each direction unless they have the appropriate alignment subtype. I don't really use law and chaos that much for individual alignments IMC (they're more the province of modrons, slaadi, and similar outsiders).
 

Plane Sailing said:
Also I wonder to what extent the original Law/Nuetral/Chaos axis in D&D was influenced by Michael Moorcocks idea that LNC was the fundamental battleground, more than human morality (good/evil). Moorcock was one of the seminal fantasy fiction writers of the day, I could easily believe that it was homage to his idea.

Poul Anderson's Three Hearts & Three Lions predated Moorcock's Eternal Champions cycle, and featured a war between Law & Chaos on multiple worlds, with a champion (which BTW was the inspiration for the Paladin, down to the mount and the remove disease ability) fighting on the side of Law on two worlds, both ours and a heroic-fantasy one.
Ogier the Dane, rejuvenated as a baby and sent to our world by Morgan la Fay so as to remove him from the impending war between Law and Chaos, grows up as an engineer and moves to the USA to study and find a job. When WW2 erupts, he goes back to Denmark, to fight the Nazi. During an covert operation, he is wounded and knocked out by German gunfire. He wakes up naked in a forest, with an impressive black stallion (strangely named "Papillon") beneath him. As he discovers this world of myth and legend, meeting a witch, a wood dwarf (the inspiration for D&D gnomes), a hill dwarf (more like a standard dwarf), a swanmay (taken to D&D, too), elves, a wizard, a giant, a troll (the inspiration for D&D's troll, with the green skin, the long nose, the regeneration), dragons and unicorns and these kind of things, he discovers he has a role to play in an impending war between Law and Chaos. Then, once he victoriously complete his quest, having defeated the Chaos' host, he is sent back again to our world, where he needs, there too, to protect the Kingdoms of Danemark and France against the forces of Chaos, which in our world were the Nazi.
 

As ruleslawer says, you couldn't easily bolt the Conan system onto the D&D system and make it work - although it would make a fine replacement in my view

(I didn't mention it but the system also includes corruption points, gained from encountering demons and casting nasty spells - Codes of Honour especially help you resist getting corruption in your soul)

So it would be possible to map it onto good/nuetral/evil in terms of Code of Honour/ No Code of Honour / Corrupted;

Paladins would have to have a Code of Honour and could detect Corruption, spells with an [evil] descriptor become spells which give you corruption, things like that.

It would be a bit of work, but you would end up with a more richly textured system than the current alignment model of D&D (and it eliminates the worries about "would a GOOD person do that?"

Cheers
 

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