Recurring silly comment about Apocalypse World and similar RPGs

[CandyLaser]

Yeah, that'd be a real sticking point for me too: the way I see it, in the fiction the door is what it is regardless of who or what is trying to get through it at the time; even if that makes it a trivial challenge for one character but a real problem for another.

I'd add that even if the fighter rolls poorly, the GM can still have the door open. They just should do something else, as well. For instance, one of the GM moves is "Reveal an unwelcome truth." So the door might fly open to reveal an undead abomination on the other side, which has been alerted to the party's presence by the fighter's loud banging as they smashed the door down. A die roll of 6- in PbtA games doesn't necessarily mean failure; it means the GM gets to make a move to show the consequences of what the PCs have done.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Even if that's what would make the most sense in the fiction; which is another reason this just wouldn't work for me as a system.

In the fiction the door might be an isolated obstacle - if you get through it, fine, you've an easier path (but might not yet realize it); if you don't get through it you have to find another (probably riskier but you might not realize that yet either) way around; but otherwise there's no consequence to either opening it or not.

Or if viewed from another angle, "Ok, door is now open, nothing else of note happens" is missing an unspoken word at the end: "now". Downstream and-or unforeseen consequences can be a thing too. Did opening the door trigger an alarm elsewhere? Do you now have a safer path to move forward? Did you just break a previously-unknown seal on something's prison?

PbtA allows for things to have downstream consequences and GM moves don't have to be instantly paid off.

But also remember, a door is only relevant if there's pressure on the characters. If they have no urgency there's no danger, the door is just color at that point, just describe how you open it!

Defy Danger, for instance requires immediate danger exists. No danger, no DD.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, that'd be a real sticking point for me too: the way I see it, in the fiction the door is what it is regardless of who or what is trying to get through it at the time; even if that makes it a trivial challenge for one character but a real problem for another.

Remember, it is a no myth game, the door exists because the GM described an obstacle in accordance with their agenda. There's no such thing in DW as a door which is 'just there'. The fiction is a tool to be used to achieve the desired kind of play.

 

[Irlo]

After reading all most some of this thread, I’m convinced I won’t really grasp the system until I see it in play. The last actual-play videos I tried to watch (maybe a year ago?) bored me into a stupor.

Any recommendations of lively, engaging AW videos, preferably not three hours long?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Remember, it is a no myth game, the door exists because the GM described an obstacle in accordance with their agenda. There's no such thing in DW as a door which is 'just there'. The fiction is a tool to be used to achieve the desired kind of play.

This is second time I have seen this claim, specifically about doors in story now games, to be made in a recent thread. It seems implausible to me for this to be the case in practice. A lot stuff just has to exist in the fictional world for it to be real and plausible. Such as doors.

Also. I have to say that more I think about it, "if you do it, you do it" forcing triggering of a move seems like rather questionable principle to me, as it seems to rule out the character just auto succeeding in a move related thing even if fictional positioning would seem to warrant it. (Perhaps there is something in AW to avoid this, I haven't read it in a while.)

 

[CandyLaser]

This is second time I have seen this claim, specifically about doors in story now games, to be made in a recent thread. It seems implausible to me for this to be the case in practice. A lot stuff just has to exist in the fictional world for it to be real and plausible. Such as doors.

Also. I have to say that more I think about it, "if you do it, you do it" forcing triggering of a move seems like rather questionable principle to me, as it seems to rule out the character just auto succeeding in a move related thing even if fictional positioning would seem to warrant it. (Perhaps there is something in AW to avoid this, I haven't read it in a while.)

The game world definitely has doors, but we're talking here specifically about the case where the GM has put a door in front of the PCs as a barrier to progress. If it's not a barrier (because it's open, or because it's unlocked and unguarded, or because it's flimsy, or whatever) then it's set dressing and the PCs can just open it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

This is second time I have seen this claim, specifically about doors in story now games, to be made in a recent thread. It seems implausible to me for this to be the case in practice. A lot stuff just has to exist in the fictional world for it to be real and plausible. Such as doors.

Well, the dungeon exists strictly as a place, and to a degree, required to meet the game's goals. What purpose would a door 'just exist' for? Whatever it's doing, why it's described, must have some impact on play.

Also. I have to say that more I think about it, "if you do it, you do it" forcing triggering of a move seems like rather questionable principle to me, as it seems to rule out the character just auto succeeding in a move related thing even if fictional positioning would seem to warrant it. (Perhaps there is something in AW to avoid this, I haven't read it in a while.)

Well, here we come to the point of asking what the rules are for. In DW you're depicting adventures in dungeons. Outside of that and related stuff DW has nothing to say. In the dungeon there's no 'just succeeding' danger is everywhere. But if you want a door just for color, ok, then when a character opens it, it's just open! Does that seem to violate the rules? Yup! Because the rules are about dangerous dungeons, not potempkin dungeons filled with doors of no consequence.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

After reading all most some of this thread, I’m convinced I won’t really grasp the system until I see it in play. The last actual-play videos I tried to watch (maybe a year ago?) bored me into a stupor.

Any recommendations of lively, engaging AW videos, preferably not three hours long?

No (but only because I watch no AP gaming - it also bores me into stupor)
Find a game and play it is my suggestion

 

[Eyes of Nine]

potempkin dungeons filled with doors of no consequence.

I am a fan of this phrase and request permission to use everywhere applicable

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is second time I have seen this claim, specifically about doors in story now games, to be made in a recent thread. It seems implausible to me for this to be the case in practice. A lot stuff just has to exist in the fictional world for it to be real and plausible. Such as doors.

Also. I have to say that more I think about it, "if you do it, you do it" forcing triggering of a move seems like rather questionable principle to me, as it seems to rule out the character just auto succeeding in a move related thing even if fictional positioning would seem to warrant it. (Perhaps there is something in AW to avoid this, I haven't read it in a while.)

Plausibility seems to play a distant second fiddle to narrative value in no-myth games. One reason why they've never worked for me.