Red Box Monsters: Hints of Changes to Come?

[occam]

That sounds dangerous, and a little bizarre! If I read you right the kobold should pretty much always be able to gain a +8 damage bonus (6 from move action and 2 from minor action).

They are going to look demented!

I just ran a couple of kobold quickblades in D&D Encounters recently, and it was kinda funny, but extremely dangerous. I described it as quickly shifting back-and-forth until the PC didn't quite know where the attack would come from. (Or, "doing a little dance", as they just shifted 4 squares in a circle in front of them.) I twice inflicted over 20 points of damage on single attacks against 1st-level PCs, which made it not so funny for them.

In that combat, the only thing that prevented the shifting was getting stuck in a knight's defensive aura, when the kobold decided it was better to forgo the extra damage in place of not getting whacked again.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I liked "knocked prone" for oozes...

i always imagined them as being cleaved in half... and needing a move action to recover...

 

[Bold or Stupid]

I liked "knocked prone" for oozes...

i always imagined them as being cleaved in half... and needing a move action to recover...

I imagine them wobbling like a jelly that has been slapped hard... They need time to stop themselves and can't move properly till they do.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thats pretty amusing and gets a thumbs up from me. The interesting thing here is the Charge Action the orc can take when it is killed, it wont care about taking opportunity attacks along the way because it is already dead. So the parties weakest link could be in for a rough time!

I'm not sure I agree with that... as:

1. An immediate interupt means that the trigger doesn't happen until after the interupt is resolved. So, if the ork can kill the model that "killed" it with its extra action, it is never dropped to zero in the first place.

2. Opportunity attacks are ALSO immediate interupts, so if you killed the orc before he finishes his triggered action, he's dead and can't continue it.

That said, it does encourage ranged characters to only pick on orks that are adjacent to allies or outside of charge range.

 

[Anathos]

Wotc doesn't admit it out of fear we call it 4.5 or they wanna preserve some appearance that their product was flawless?

I dunno. I'd just say: "guys, we're gonna update monsters and that's it".

They have admitted it. In MM3 (or maybe 2, I don't remember) they said that the old monsters are outdated and then give tables that contain new stats-by-level-and-role so you can convert them, and Monster Vault contains a bunch of the monsters from MM1 updated to use the new stats and layout.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

It would be nice, though, if you could remove the old versions from monster builder - as it stands, you can't delete or otherwise mark as obselete any of the WotC monsters.

 

[Mesh Hong]

I'm not sure I agree with that... as:

1. An immediate interupt means that the trigger doesn't happen until after the interupt is resolved. So, if the ork can kill the model that "killed" it with its extra action, it is never dropped to zero in the first place.

2. Opportunity attacks are ALSO immediate interupts, so if you killed the orc before he finishes his triggered action, he's dead and can't continue it.

That said, it does encourage ranged characters to only pick on orks that are adjacent to allies or outside of charge range.

You are right of course. I think I was getting a bit carried away there!

But hang on, the intention of the power seems to be that the orc gets another action before dying; "Savage Demise".

But that is not how this will play out, because all the orc needs to do (in most cases) with his standard action is to shift 1 square which will put him outside the reach of the attacker and mean that he doesn't take the damage (he could also charge a different PC in a lot of cases because the triggering PC will not be able to take immediate reactions during their own turn). Surely the power should be called "Desperate Action" or "Savage Surge" and not "Savage Demise" because he stands a very good chance of surviving and not Demising.

 

[Anathos]

You are right of course. I think I was getting a bit carried away there!

But hang on, the intention of the power seems to be that the orc gets another action before dying; "Savage Demise".

But that is not how this will play out, because all the orc needs to do (in most cases) with his standard action is to shift 1 square which will put him outside the reach of the attacker and mean that he doesn't take the damage (he could also charge a different PC in a lot of cases because the triggering PC will not be able to take immediate reactions during their own turn). Surely the power should be called "Desperate Action" or "Savage Surge" and not "Savage Demise" because he stands a very good chance of surviving and not Demising.

It depends on the trigger. If the trigger is taking the damage then the hit has already happened and can't be prevented, which means that he won't be able to save himself unless he has some means of reducing damage. Sure, he might take someone down with him, but that's the best he can do. Also, OA caused by charging would still kill. Savage Demise is an Interrupt, which means the damage hasn't yet been dealt at the time of the action; Opportunity actions are also Interrupts, so their effects are applied before the charge action is completed. OA hits, dealing damage and killing the enemy before it completes its charge.

 

[Jhaelen]

It would be nice, though, if you could remove the old versions from monster builder - as it stands, you can't delete or otherwise mark as obselete any of the WotC monsters.

Of course you can. Just disable the sourcebook the outdated monsters are in, e.g. MM1.

 

[Festivus]

It depends on the trigger. If the trigger is taking the damage then the hit has already happened and can't be prevented, which means that he won't be able to save himself unless he has some means of reducing damage. Sure, he might take someone down with him, but that's the best he can do. Also, OA caused by charging would still kill. Savage Demise is an Interrupt, which means the damage hasn't yet been dealt at the time of the action; Opportunity actions are also Interrupts, so their effects are applied before the charge action is completed. OA hits, dealing damage and killing the enemy before it completes its charge.

I believe the trigger is "drops 0 hitpoints", so they are doomed no matter what. I'd let the savage charge fly, it sounds very orc like and not at all out of character. Let the players take OAs, but unless they have a way to stop the movement it's going to get it's charge off. Vicious and deadly... and very scary even for a minion.