D&D 4E Redesigning 4E multiclassing power swap feats

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

A random idea occured to me - I've really rarely seen people pick up the multiclass feats for swapping powers. It just never seems worth it to sacrifice a feat slot for a power that is not that much better than one you already have.

So I wonder, what could be done to make them a bit more attractive?
The existing feats are Novice, Acolyte and Adept Power


Generic Approach
The generic approach is to avoid fiddling a solution for every class.

Novice Power
Swap one encounter power from your primary class with an encounter power of the same level or lower from your multiclass.

You also gain a +3 feat bonus to one skill from the class skill list of the multiclass that you are not already trained in. You treat the skill as trained for purposes of what kind of check you are allowed to make with it.

Acolyte Power
Swap one Utility Power from your primary class with that of an encounter power of the same level or lower from your multiclass.

You also gain the Skill Focus feat in one class skill from the multiclass.

Adept Power
Swap one Daily Power from your primary class with at of an encounter power of the same level or lower from your multiclass.

In addition, after each extended rest, for each power that you have swapped via a multiclass feat, you can choose whether to use the power of the multiclass or the original power from your primary class.



Class Specific Approach
Second, a class specific approach. Power Swapping as normal, plus something depending on class. For each power swap feat, you can pick one of the choices below. There are also two shared choices.

All Classes

• Skill Affinity Option: Pick two skills from the multiclass skill list. You gain a +2 feat bonus to them.
• Skill Focus Option: If the multiclass has a skill that it gains automatic skill training in, you can choose to gain the Skill Focus Feat in. Some classes may also specificy other skills you may use for this feature.

Rogue

• When you do not use Sneak Attack on your turn, you gain a +1 feat bonus on damage rolls against enemies you have combat advantage with melee or ranged attacks. This bonus increases to +2 at Level 11 and +3 at Level 21. You can use this bonus only on weapons that you could normally sneak attack with.
• Once per encounter when you provoke an opportunity attack, you may add your Charisma modifier to your defense against that opportunity attack.

Fighter

• Once per encounter when an enemy you have marked shifts, you can use an Immediate Action to make a melee basic attack against him.
• Once per encounter, as a minor action until the end of your next turn, you can mark each enemy you attack with a melee weapon attack.
• Once per encounter, when you hit an enemy with an opportunity attack, that enemy movements ends.
• Skill Focus Options: Athletics, Endurance or Streetwise

Wizard

• You learn one cantrip and can use it at-will.
• You can pick 3 cantrips and can use each once per encounter.
• Pick one Wizard 1st level at-will attack power. You can use it once per encounter.
• You can use a Wizard spellbook. If you have used a multiclass feat to swap one of your class utility or daily powers for a wizard spell, you can learn a second Wizard spell and choose which wizard spell to prepare after each extended rest.
• Additional Skill Focus Option: Dungeoneering, History, Religion, Nature

Warlock

• Once per encounter, you can put a limited Warlock's Curse on an enemy. As long as the enemy if cursed, you gain a +1 feat bonus to all damage rolls against that enemy until that enemy is no longer cursed. This bonus increases to +2 at Level 11 and +3 at Level 21.
• Pick one Warlock 1st level at-will attack power. You can use it once per encounter.
• Skill Focus Option: Arcana, Bluff, Intimidate

Warlord

• If you haven't used Inspiring Word yet during an encounter, you can use it once as a Standard Action. You can use Inspiring Word again until after a short rest.
• You gain the Combat Leader feature.
• Pick one Warlord at-will attack power. You can use it once per encounter.
• Skill Focus Option: Heal or History

Paladin

• You can use Lay on Hands once per day.
• Once per encounter, you can Divine Challenge. The effect lasts until the end of your next turn.
• Pick one Paladin at-will power. You can use it once per encounter.
• Skill Focus Option: Diplomacy, Religion

Ranger

• Once per encounter, you can put a limited Hunter's Quarry on an enemy. As long as the enemy is your quarry, you gain a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls against that enemy. This bonus increases to +2 at Level 11 and +3 at Level 21.
• Pick one Ranger 1st level at-will attack power. You can use it once per encounter.
• Skill Focus Option: Endurance, Nature, Perception

Cleric

• If you haven't used Healing Word yet during an encounter, you can use it once as a Standard Action. You cannot use Healing Word again until after a short rest
• Pick one Cleric at-will attack power. You can use it once per encounter.
• Additional Skill Focus Option: Heal, Insight

Comments, Concerns, Convergences?

 

[FreeXenon]

I did not read every single option you presented, but I like what I have seen.
I take the first level multi-class feats a lot, but have never taken the others.
Something like this may entice me to take the others.

A good start.

 

[Ferghis]

Generic Approach
The generic approach is to avoid fiddling a solution for every class.

Novice Power
Swap one encounter power from your primary class with an encounter power of the same level or lower from your multiclass.

You also gain a +3 feat bonus to one skill from the class skill list of the multiclass that you are not already trained in. You treat the skill as trained for purposes of what kind of check you are allowed to make with it.

Acolyte Power
Swap one Utility Power from your primary class with that of an encounter power of the same level or lower from your multiclass.

You also gain the Skill Focus feat in one class skill from the multiclass.

This is a good idea, but it leaves the character with (+3 +2=) +5 for training and focusing a skill, in lieu of the traditional (+5 +2=) +7. I would make the Novice Power give you a +3 feat bonus, and specifically not train you. If you selected the same skill with Acolyte Power, the feat bonus would increase to +5 and you would be trained. Then you can grant Skill Focus with the Adept Power swap, if the same skill was selected a third time.

However, this leaves class features out in the cold. You address this with the class specific approach, but this absence somewhat cripples the generic one. I'm wondering if it would be unbalanced to optionally incorporate power swaps into the existing multiclass skills if one removes the benefit of the skill training. So, most multiclass feats would grant you a class feature AND either skill training OR a power swap. I think this is where I'm headed.

In addition, after each extended rest, for each power that you have swapped via a multiclass feat, you can choose whether to use the power of the multiclass or the original power from your primary class.

This is a very nice idea.

Class Specific Approach
Second, a class specific approach.

These work well, and are similar to what I was suggesting above. I'll comment on a few of them, but I don't want you to misconstrue these comments as me not liking these options. They really are all good ideas.

When you do not use Sneak Attack on your turn, you gain a +1 feat bonus on damage rolls against enemies you have combat advantage with melee or ranged attacks. This bonus increases to +2 at Level 11 and +3 at Level 21. You can use this bonus only on weapons that you could normally sneak attack with.

This is problematic because it won't stack with weapon focus, which is pretty obligatory for strikers (or near-strikers), who are the ones most interested in multiclassing into rogue. I would make the damage bonus untyped. If you feel that's too strong (I don't, since the PC damage to monster HP ration plummets as characters go up in level), maybe lower the bonus to +1 at paragon and +2 at epic.

However, I could be wrong, since most multiclass feats give access to a class feature for little more than one round.

You can use a Wizard spellbook. If you have used a multiclass feat to swap one of your class utility or daily powers for a wizard spell, you can learn a second Wizard spell and choose which wizard spell to prepare after each extended rest.

So you can't spellbook wizard encounter attack powers? This (and other multiclass spellbook feats) seems less worthwhile than other options.

Once per encounter, you can put a limited Warlock's Curse on an enemy. As long as the enemy if cursed, you gain a +1 feat bonus to all damage rolls against that enemy until that enemy is no longer cursed. This bonus increases to +2 at Level 11 and +3 at Level 21.

Shouldn't this (and other such striker features) last until the end of the character's next turn?

 

[Saagael]

I've also house ruled multiclassing to make it less feat intensive and more interesting, and its worked out fairly well. This looks like a good start, and seems to be fairly balanced when handing out class features.

What I do for multiclassing is fairly simple: When you multiclass, you can start gaining powers from your secondary class in lieu of your primary class. The only limitation to this is that you can't have more secondary class powers than primary class powers.

This, for the most part, limits a person to 1 encounter, 1 daily, and 2 utility powers from their secondary class (since paragon path and epic destiny powers can't be swapped). Paragon multiclassing then means you can get up to 2 encounter powers, 2 daily powers, and 3 utility powers from your secondary class.

I might add this to the mix though. Maybe as a bonus for paragon multiclassing or something.

 

[D'karr]

My hack for multiclassing is to limit it to one feat instead of 3. When you select your first feat you gain access as if you had the other feats. You can swap at the same levels as the other feats (4,8).

It has worked well enough. I've also decided to make weapon multiclassing feats (Chain Fighter, etc) not be "multiclassing" feats for the purpose of allowability. If someone wants to be a warlock/sorcerer/chain fighter they can.

Multiclassing went too far in the opposite direction with 4e. It was a sensible solution but took away too much. My hack has not "broken" anything with my group so it works well enough for us.

I agree that if the DM wants to keep the two other feats they should be a heck of a lot more attractive than a simple power swap.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What I do for multiclassing is fairly simple: When you multiclass, you can start gaining powers from your secondary class in lieu of your primary class. The only limitation to this is that you can't have more secondary class powers than primary class powers.

Quite sensible in the context of 4Ed.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This is problematic because it won't stack with weapon focus, which is pretty obligatory for strikers (or near-strikers), who are the ones most interested in multiclassing into rogue. I would make the damage bonus untyped. If you feel that's too strong (I don't, since the PC damage to monster HP ration plummets as characters go up in level), maybe lower the bonus to +1 at paragon and +2 at epic.

Well, if you are already investing feats into multiclassing, this feat may free you from the obligation to also take Weapon Focus - that's at least the way I see it. It may not help you quite as often, but close enough that it may not metter.

[quote}
So you can't spellbook wizard encounter attack powers? This (and other multiclass spellbook feats) seems less worthwhile than other options.
[/QUOTE]
IIRC, the core Wizard (unlike the Essential Wizard) can only use his spellbook with utility and daily powers. That's how I limited it here as well.

[QUOTE 9
Shouldn't this (and other such striker features) last until the end of the character's next turn?[/quote]
No, they are all intended to basically work like the Rogue feat -instead of the big extra damage dice from the special ability once per encounter, you get a small but constant bonus. And unless I am mistaken, curse and quarry last until you do something to remove them (curse by default doesn't do that allow, quarry whenever you change the quarry). And likewise, it will basically replace Implement and Weapon Focus for multiclasses.

 

[Manbearcat]

What I do for multiclassing is fairly simple: When you multiclass, you can start gaining powers from your secondary class in lieu of your primary class. The only limitation to this is that you can't have more secondary class powers than primary class powers.

This is precisely what I did. It was intuitive, useful, didn't break the game (which I actually feel the RAW mutli-classing rules break it in the other direction...the feat investment is too intensive and dilutes character power in proportion to said investment), and allowed for a customization level that is quite satisfactory.

In truth, I've hacked up 4e in quite a few ways. However, this one was one of the best ones.

 

[Ferghis]

... it will basically replace Implement and Weapon Focus for multiclasses.

Since they don't stack with Weapon/Implement Focus, these conditional damage bonuses are inferior options, with respect to damage output, an important issue not only for strikers, but for most PCs.

Higher level fights are often reduced to grinding at-wills for round after round. Given the HP of higher level monsters, the PCs damage output needs to go up. There may be other excellent reasons to take multiclass feats, but I'm think that adding a simple untyped +1 to damage rolls is a better option. Or, let characters roll for damage twice, and take the better roll - a dramatically more potent option, but not one that would break the game.

Just my two cents.