D&D General Redesigning DnD 5e with no Bonus Actions

[Zaukrie]

@mearls

It'll definitely be simpler and faster... but will it be -better-?

I don't feel like it will. A drum I've been banging on for years is that the best way to allow a Gish to exist is by letting them cast and attack in the same turn, so they're not being half a character at a time. Part of why I like the Eldritch Knight's design (though I'd have put War Magic in differently and earlier).

Not that bonus actions are a super huge part of that, thanks to the spell design for the most part.

As far as removing modifiers from damage: that's cool? Personally I'd rather see it happen the other way around. Get rid of rolling for damage and just add your modifier to a set value for a given weapon or spell as someone mentioned upthread. Doubled Randomness isn't really useful when you've already got a binary hit check.

I couldn't disagree more with that last paragraph, which is why there are so many games to choose from.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You clearly haven't read what mearls is proposing, since nearly every example you give is not how it would work under his proposal.

That said, I have no real issue with keeping them out losing them. My thought is that people sometimes have a hard time looking at changes to something that has been around for twenty or more years of gaming with fully open eyes. That might not be you, and isn't aimed at you specifically.

I took the principle (delete bonus actions, bump all things up to actions) as given.

Mearls seems to understand that this would, in fact, be a problem. I really, really don't think he's considered all of the knock-on effects here, and I really do think that spells like healing word are the most emblematic example. It's also worth noting, his "solution" to misty step was..."make it part of your movement somehow." Like, not even actually HAVING a solution, just saying "combine it into something else 4head."

Being perfectly honest, I don't have a lot of respect for Mearls' work as a designer. I think his sense of good vs bad design is badly calibrated, I think he goes massively too far in favor of his pet preferences rather than sincerely surveying his options, and the adventures that have his name on the cover have left a lot to be desired across three different systems. I understand he has a great deal more experience than me and that my awareness of his work may be incomplete, but I really don't think it's much of a stretch to at least view his mechanical ideas with a skeptical eye.

 

[Shardstone]

I took the principle (delete bonus actions, bump all things up to actions) as given.

Mearls seems to understand that this would, in fact, be a problem. I really, really don't think he's considered all of the knock-on effects here, and I really do think that spells like healing word are the most emblematic example. It's also worth noting, his "solution" to misty step was..."make it part of your movement somehow." Like, not even actually HAVING a solution, just saying "combine it into something else 4head."

Being perfectly honest, I don't have a lot of respect for Mearls' work as a designer. I think his sense of good vs bad design is badly calibrated, I think he goes massively too far in favor of his pet preferences rather than sincerely surveying his options, and the adventures that have his name on the cover have left a lot to be desired across three different systems. I understand he has a great deal more experience than me and that my awareness of his work may be incomplete, but I really don't think it's much of a stretch to at least view his mechanical ideas with a skeptical eye.

If you are t using his free patreon posts to inform your opinion, you are making a mistake.

 

[Gradine]

I don't have a lot of respect for Mearls period, and certainly would not provide traffic to him, but I have less issues with his game design ideas in general. That said, he is pretty hilariously wrong on this point.

I'm failing to see how creating one single type of action, some of which let you do one thing and others which let you do two wildly different things, is preferable to having two clearly delineated types of actions.

Bonus actions are probably one of Wizards' best additions to the game.

 

[Horwath]

As far as removing modifiers from damage: that's cool? Personally I'd rather see it happen the other way around. Get rid of rolling for damage and just add your modifier to a set value for a given weapon or spell as someone mentioned upthread. Doubled Randomness isn't really useful when you've already got a binary hit check.

make all weapons deal fixed damage. with ability mod added after.
from 0 unarmed to 6 or 7 for greatsword.

for every point of attack roll over AC, add 1 to damage roll.

and you can tweak those numbers.
with both base damage or amount of bonus damage from attack roll

maybe 1/2 damage per point over AC would be fine. or maybe +2 damage per point.
or maybe it can vary by weapon type: Light, 1Handed non-light and 2Handed+Heavy. Similar to 3.5e/PF1 power attack feat.

that makes players(and DMs) feel good about any result except: I need 9 or more to hit and I need 20 to crit.

sneak attack can just add +2 damage per rogue level.

smite can be 10 damage + 5 per spell level above 1st.

 

[TiQuinn]

The character options are built to allow for faster play without (hopefully!) making them too simple. Ideally, players would feel they have 5e-level characters in terms of customization and unique abilities, but OSE or Shadowdark feel in terms of speed at the table. I'm working on a game design document to share on the Patreon early next week.

Multiclassing is still down the line, but my idea system would look like the class creation system from the 2e DMG. That system assigned a point cost to each class feature, and you built your custom class with a budget.

Yes, yes, yes to both of these! The speed of play issue has become the main reason that I think I get tired of D&D, but I also think it’s opposed to having a game that’s suitably crunchy for me. So this 5e that plays a bit more like Shadowdark sounds perfect.

And multi-classing, I just feel that it becomes impossible to balance after awhile. It leads to the complex builds which again leads to slower play. I much prefer the idea of building classes.

 

[TiQuinn]

I don't feel like it will. A drum I've been banging on for years is that the best way to allow a Gish to exist is by letting them cast and attack in the same turn, so they're not being half a character at a time. Part of why I like the Eldritch Knight's design (though I'd have put War Magic in differently and earlier).

Speaking as a Gish-lover, the ability that has always been the most important to my view of the character was being to cast/attack but with a narrow spell list, I.E. touch attacks. I don’t think his design would necessarily prevent that.

 

[TiQuinn]

I'm failing to see how creating one single type of action, some of which let you do one thing and others which let you do two wildly different things, is preferable to having two clearly delineated types of actions.

Easier design pattern. You create an action for a new class and you can model it off of the actions that already exist or use them as a barometer for balance and power. What I’m not sure about is whether that action’s abilities are clearer than if they were just divided between action and bonus action. I was never confused by action vs bonus action largely because the actions are written clearly. I worry that jamming it into one action gets messy.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Most of my games for the past 5 years have been online sessions played one hour at a time. I'm using that experience to drive the design. One hour, online games have made ongoing campaigns much easier to keep going for me. I have three active campaigns despite working full-time, raising a kid, helping take care of elderly relatives, and doing all the other stuff that comes with home and family.

The prospect of playing a solid game in 1 hour gets me tornt. Like, hooting and hollering like a chimp over here, at the prospect of 1 hr of gameplay turning into a solid progression of narrative.

 

[tetrasodium]

I can't imagine anything of substance occuring during 1hr sessions, it sounds like reducing ttrpg gameplay to a level of depth adjacent to cell phone gacha idle games unless the session is stripped elsewhere to make room for substance by removing any sort of social interaction with each other like it's some kind of drip om multiplayer fps matchmaking setup..