Redesigning Each Class Using the Fighter As a Model

[airwalkrr]

I just had an epiphany for a way to redesign the class system to give individual classes more options while retaining their flavor. Now the system would require a lot of work, but I think it would go a long way towards making an individual class more interesting to play. The idea is to use the fighter as a model or template if you will for every other class in the game. That is, each class gains a certain number of bonus feats and has a list of feats or special abilities that the character can learn with those bonus feats. Some abilities have level requirements to keep them on the higher end.

Here is a hypothetical example, using the barbarian.

A barbarian gains a bonus ability every level. The barbarian can choose from the following:
Rage-Each time the barbarian chooses this ability, he can rage one more time each day.
Fast Movement
Uncanny Dodge (lvl 2)
Trap Sense (lvl 3)-Each time the barbarian chooses this ability, it gives him an additional +1.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (lvl 5)
Damage Reduction (lvl 7)-Each time the barbarian chooses this ability, it gives him an additional 1 to his DR.
Greater Rage (lvl 11)
Indomitable Will (lvl 14)
Tireless Rage (lvl 17)
Might Rage (lvl 20)
Or a barbarian could select any of the feats in the Power Attack tree, Weapon Focus, or a Weapon Proficiency.

This is just a rough idea. I will try to flesh it out more carefully when I have more time. Thoughts?

 

[javcs]

This looks a lot like the generic classes from Unearthed Arcana.

 

[reanjr]

When I did something similar, I found it useful to look at all the classes and strip them down to a bare minimum. For instance, all classes have a d4 or greater for Hit Dice, so that's your base there. 2 skill points. Use the Fighter's skill selection as an idea of where to start as they have the worst selection. Saves are all +1/3 progression.

What I did was grant two "Character Features" each level (4 at first). These could be used to purchase more hit points, skill points, etc. on top of the standard d4 and 2 skill points. They could also be used to purchase things like Rage, Bardic Music, Arcane Casting, Turning, Sneak Attack, etc. Or the feature could be used to acquire two feats of the player's choice. Saving Throws could be increased as well.

The only limitation is that the same feature cannot be purchased twice at a given level except for feats.

So you might have a fighter type who picks a +3 Fort save feature, 10hp, and four feats (using up the last two Character Features).

Does it perfectly match a first level fighter? No. But it's a reasonable match in terms of power.

 

[starwed]

This looks a lot like the generic classes from Unearthed Arcana.

Agreed. I played a PC using a slightly modified version of the the generic class system, and it seemd to work pretty well.

 

[Arkhandus]

I have to agree. I think, in the end, you'd find that you did a lot of work for almost nothing; you'd be playing with classes that are essentially just different shades of Unearthed Arcana's generic warrior, expert, and spellcaster. They might be a little more unique, but I think it would ultimately just prove to be an inferior version of the 3 generic classes (basically, losing some of their versatility without really gaining much of anything instead, since each class would just look like a generic class but more limited in options).

Also: you're basically removing the Fighter's only advantage and unique quality; versatility in physical combat abilities.

I prefer each class having some 'static' abilities that are a given, like barbarians raging and running fast, rangers tracking and having keen familiarity with favored prey/enemies, etc. Having different strengths of abilities (not just 'all mediocre abilities, all the time') to choose from or gain automatically (through different class features, obviously) is also a good thing.

Also, I just think that maintaining some of the D&D class system's strength would be best; making every class just a package of 'hit die, base skill points, and class skills' with a selectable ability every level would basically defeat the purpose of having a class system, which is my main objection to UA's generic classes.

They may as well have just given the 'classes and levels suck' crowd what they wanted, a point-buy system of D&D character creation and advancement. I'd still be unhappy with it, but at least the people who dislike the number/specifics of D&D classes would be pleased and not think it half-arsed.

 

[Tonguez]

I tinkered with a system that gave every character 10 Feats to use to create the base character and a new feat gained every 2000XP. BAb and Saves also became Skills

The base character
HD 4 (increase using stackable Toughness Feat +2)
Skills 6+int
10 Feats

Barbarian
HD 4 +8
Skills 6+Int
Feats
1 Toughness +2
2 Toughness +2
3 Toughness +2
4 Toughness +2
5 Simple Weapons
6 Martial Weapons
7 Rage
8 Fast Movement + 10
9 Light Armour
10 Shields

I didn't finish converting all abilities to feats so its still a wip

 

[airwalkrr]

I figured someone would bring up the generic classes, but they are something I specifically want to avoid. I want to maintain the archetypes represented by the core classes (barbarian, bard, cleric, etc.) while allowing for a little more variation between the classes. Right now, the only things different between classes are feats, skills, and spell selection. All class abilities are the same no matter the character. Suppose you could play a barbarian who was all about raging and battle, but not so quick to dodge traps. Or imagine a ranger who concentrates on studying his favored enemies to the detriment of his weapon styles. Of course, it might simply invite more min/maxing. Some food for thought.

 

[Tonguez]

Check out this thread op: Woodelf Weapons as Special Effects

If you are going to give everyone more feats I'd suggest giving these as the Fighters bonus abilities

For everyone else create new Feats with class prereqs and perhaps some general 'telent trees'

 

[Turanil]

...redesign the class system to give individual classes more options while retaining their flavor. <...> Thoughts?

This is also something I have been considering. My idea is inspired by True20 and the UA generic classes system. Myself, I mostly want the system be adaptable to many genres (fantasy, modern, sci-fi, etc.) so it's vaguely based on d20 modern:

1) At character creation, one chooses a "base class", which is a class that has 3 levels already*, and doesn't increase in level thereafter. These classes may be: Barbarian, Soldier, Tech Specialist, Occultist, Rogue, etc. (at least 20 of them). They represent the character's background, years of training and education, the profession they had before becoming adventurers, etc. Each class has predetermined class skills and class features (in addition to BAB, HD, etc.), plus 2 feats and 2 class skills of the character's choice, to allow a bit of customization.
(* My players never liked to begin the game at 1st level, so it became a habit to begin at 3rd level, as in old Dark Sun. Plus my average NPCs are 3rd level, not 1st level.)

2) Every level they gain thereafter (so at 4th level and beyond), characters choose what they want to improve, so get levels in either Adept, Expert, or Warrior (or maybe: Adept, Disciple, Expert, Savant, and Warrior). Multiclassing gets no restrictions, but saves begin at +1 not +2, as to prevent saves-values distorsions you could get when getting something like a Monk1-Ranger-1-Cleric1, as opposed to a single class 3rd lvl PC. Each class gets a certain number of skill-points per level, but class skills are still those of the base class. Each class has access to both generic feats, and its own special list of feats (hence, for warriors it includes for example barbarian class features turned into feats).

3) Each level of Adept, Expert, or Warrior grants a bonus feat, but these are the only feats to gain, there is no bonus feats based on character level (gained at 1st, 3rd, 6th, etc.) to get in addition to them.

4) I am tempted to also use the "Weapons as Special Effects" system (which looks great!).

5) I am considering having base class hp being "wound points" where losing them induce penalties to d20 rolls, while additional level rather provide "vitality points" which loss doesn't induce penalties to d20 rolls. Also, vitality points are easier to recover (rest using 20 way) than wound points (require magic or doctor care). One idea is that being caught flat-footed directly affect wound points, and/or critical hits are treated as half dmg on wound points and half dmg on vitality points.

6) Adept level: I would implement magic without distinction between arcane and divine as in AU/AE.


I would be glad to know what others think of this system idea.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

If you really want such an undertaking, I would recommend checking out Red Leaf Games D(Liberation) 20 for inspirational value.