Redskins: an improper name... now what?

[Crothian]

So why not just stand on the "But we don't INTEND to offend anyone by it." argument if that is so morally justified?

I'm not actually with the Redskin organization so I can't say why they didn't. But like most businesses one looks at what they are doing and the effect a change woulkd have on the bottom line. I imagine it was a simple change to make and great from a PR standpoint that wouldn't effect the money they brought in.

 

[Vigilance]

Those words though are not banished. I hear them used in a negative way more then Redskin. Posters are just expanding the thread. There was no way a thread like this was going to stay so narrowly defined.

So one more time, Ive asked you this before and you always duck the question: Washington N-word would be ok with you then huh? What about the Washington K-word?

I have no problem with the thread being "expanded" as you put it, but people keep expanding it in ways that are disingenuous.

Expanding it to "brave" or "indian" is BS and you know it. The DICTIONARY DEFINITION of the word is a slur on Native Americans.

That's ALL it means and all it EVER meant.

So if you'd be comfortable with a team called either of those other two words that are in the same league, please just say so.

In other words, own that the word is racist. Because it is. Then we can compare it to other racist words.

 

[ReignMan]

I have to say that I, until reading this thread, never knew the meaning of the R-word. If this meaning is not in dispute I can't see a justifiable reason to keep it as a team name/trademark. The point being that it is not the intent or context of the word which is making it offensive but the word itself.

However, what you can see in the responses is a general discontent with the ever increasing drive for political correctness which I echo, at some point we need to stop the stupidness and lighten up. (not over this name I must add)

Every race, religion, tribe, colour and nationality has at some point been the victim and also the tormentor, it is an unfortunate fact of human nature. No this isn't an invite for "my group never did anything" responses because I can guarantee you that from someone (or somethings) perspective, you probably have.

Thanks,
ReignMan - British Imperialist Scum

 

[Crothian]

So one more time, Ive asked you this before and you always duck the question: Washington N-word would be ok with you then huh? What about the Washington K-word?

I think if I'd been hearing it as the team name all my life it would be more acceptiable then just changing the name to that now. Oddly enough the franchise was orgianlly the Boston Braves.

That's ALL it means and all it EVER meant.

It also means the team the plays football in Washnington DC. Dictionaries though usually don't always have many proper nouns in them.

 

[Vigilance]

It also means the team the plays football in Washnington DC. Dictionaries though usually don't always have many proper nouns in them.

But they DO have this one, and it's definition ranges from "offensive" in the two sources I quoted above, to "usually offensive" in Miriam Webster, which is the EXACT same way that dictionary defines the N-word and the K-word.

Words, I would point out, no one in this thread has even been WILLING to say. What does that tell you?

You can stay in denial all you want. It's the equivalent of words improper for polite company, improper for this message board and improper as the name of a business.

And I like how your argument basically boils down to "I can get used to anything for a football team name, no matter how offensive, just so long as I grow up with it".

The fact that you think that IS THE PROBLEM!

It's a scurrilous word. It shouldn't be something ignorant kids grow up thinking it's ok because it has the respectability of a pro sports franchise to cloak it.

 

[Crothian]

What does that tell you?

That they violate the rules of the site and people don't want to get banned. I imagine if this topic was on CM or another site it was allowed you might see a different response.

And I like how your argument basically boils down to "I can get used to anything for a football team name, no matter how offensive, just so long as I grow up with it".
.

It is not my arguement. I stated earlier I don't care either way. I think that the word has lost meaning. I can't recall the last time I ever heard it used as an insult and I have native american friends that have never been called that. I believe that eventually all these words will lose these meanings except in historical context.

 

[Vigilance]

It is not my arguement. I stated earlier I don't care either way. I think that the word has lost meaning. I can't recall the last time I ever heard it used as an insult and I have native american friends that have never been called that. I believe that eventually all these words will lose these meanings except in historical context.

As long as people defend its use in the NOW its pretty hard for it to become part of the THEN.

 

[takyris]

It is not my arguement. I stated earlier I don't care either way. I think that the word has lost meaning. I can't recall the last time I ever heard it used as an insult and I have native american friends that have never been called that.

And I have Native American friends and in-laws who HAVE. As an insult.

Vig has showed the dictionary definitions. People with actual Native heritage have brought up their points of view, which, not to put too fine a point on it, sort of outrank yours as far as getting to decide whether a given term is offensive. If you can't see it, that's on you.

Chaka when the walls fell, Vig.

 

[Vigilance]

Chaka when the walls fell, Vig.

Hah! That is one of my all time favorite TNG episodes, err what I meant to say was "Darmok and Jilad on the ocean".

Seriously though, my actual purpose for posting this was sort of "what now". I started with the assumption that square 1 was "we all agree the word is wrong, what now".

I see now how naive that was. Apparently the discussion was needed, because of the complete indifference of most in this thread.

Since it isn't an insult to them, it isn't an insult. Nice.

And as much as everyone keeps tossing around that the N-word is used in sometimes friendly ways, no one would tolerate a business called that (no matter what Crothian thinks- apprently there's a Truman-show-esque magic that happens with the past- if it was like that when we were little, it must be ok).

Glad our parents weren't like that about Jim Crow. It was like that when THEY were little. It didnt magically make it ok.

And of course this ignores (conveniently) that the BEST analogue is the K-word for Jewish people, which, like redskin, is ALSO a word used predominately by their oppressors, who were KILLING them.

Say that word around a big tough Jewish veteran sometime. I guarantee fun will be had by all.

 

[Crothian]

As long as people defend its use in the NOW its pretty hard for it to become part of the THEN.

No one is defending its use as an insult. I see the word having two meanings like many words do.