Reducing the number of bonus types

[SSquirrel]

Anyone have a clue how to cut down on the 8 jillion number of bonus types? We have dodge, blessed, magic, luck, armor, etc etc. They seem to go on forever and drive scores of everything insanely high.

The impact this would have is largely at the epic scale of the game, where you need gigantic to hit numbers for the insane ACs. However, if you never plan to go beyond, say, 15th or so, it may help.

Airwalkrr talked in another thread about problems for people to figure out attack bonuses w/a high stat and all the bonuses. It's my thinking that reducing the number of distinct bonus types, say 5 or so, would go a long way to keeping numbers more manageable.

That would also mean having to decide for all those other random bonuses out there, which category they would become instead and how many (if any) of them you will allow to stack. Heck, if you let each bonus type stack to to +5 you could still end up with a +25. No this would not count the armor bonus of the actual armor you wear.

What categories would we have? Magic? Feats? Action? Situation? Luck? Racial?

Thoughts?

Hagen

 

[smootrk]

Well, my thoughts are that the Holy, Sacred, Divine, etc. Set (and the Unholy/Vile equivalents) need to be streamlined down to just one or possibly a second type.

There is my 2cents

 

[Nail]

I've removed most of 'em:

Magic Overview:
BONUS TYPES
Spells (and spell-like abilities) can only give bonuses and penalties of the enhancement type. For all spells, change into enhancement the bonus (and penalty) types of: competence, deflection, inherent, insight, luck, profane, resistance, and sacred. Enhancement bonuses can stack with each other, so long as they are not from the same spell (“same source” rule), to a maximum of +10.

Morale bonuses and penalties, and Dodge bonuses, may only be conferred by extraordinary or supernatural abilities, and can never be permanent. Inherent bonuses cannot be conferred by any mortal magic or ability. Circumstance bonuses cannot be conferred by any magic at all.

 

[Nail]

There are many, many advantages to doing this, not least of which is speed of play. Now buffing someone no longer has to be a complicated back-and-forth of what stacks and what doesn't. That fact alone induced me to switch.

This changes magic items too, of course. Now there are only enhancement bonuses, and they are all capped at +10 (instead of +5 for weapons and armor, +20 for skills, +6 for ability scores....etc.).

I desperately hope that 4.0e takes care of the "bonus types" problem. Please, please, please.........

 

[szilard]

Bonuses that stack with themselves:
Luck
Inherent
Circumstance

Bonuses that do not stack with themselves:
Competence
Arcane
Divine

Ability bonuses, racial bonuses, and size bonuses all become Inherent.
Enhancement bonuses generally become either Arcane or Divine.
Dodge bonuses should be doubled and treated as Inherent bonuses to Dexterity for the purposes of Armor Class.

How does that look?

-Stuart

 

[Nail]

Dodge?

What bonus types collapse into what bonus types?

No Morale bonus type? Etc.

 

[szilard]

Dodge?

It is in there.

What bonus types collapse into what bonus types?

No Morale bonus type? Etc.

It will depend upon the individual instances of the bonus type.
In general:

Insight, Morale -> Competence (Some instances of Moral bonuses might become Circumstance. Some instances of Insight bonuses might become Inherent)

Deflection, Resistance -> Arcane or Divine. Some of these might become Luck.

Sacred, Holy, Profane, etc. -> Divine

-Stuart

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Uh, why don't you just not allow bonuses that you don't like? Like staffs that give luck bonuses to saves and little floating stones that give bonuses to 75% of a character's stats...why do we need those?

 

[SSquirrel]

That would render whole items useless. This is a way to simplify things but not neuter choices for the players.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Bonuses that stack with themselves:
Luck
Inherent
Circumstance

Okay, I like that you're simplifying, but if you put most bonuses into the categories that stack with themselves, how is this preventing the original problem?

How about this:
There are six categories, in a 2x3 array: (Active / Passive) (Physical / Magical / Inherent)
You can have ONE bonus from each category; if you have multiple sources, use the highest at a given time.

Take AC, for instance.
The Active categories are lost if you're flat-footed.
The Passive categories removed for touch attacks.
So, shields and dodging are Active Physical. Armor and Natural Armor are Passive Physical. The shield spell, haste, a Monk's WIS bonus, or most deflection items are Active Magical. The mage armor spell (or most other +AC spells), a boost from a wish, or the Monk's level boost, are Passive Magical.
Racial and attribute bonuses are Inherent (DEX is active, for instance, while race is passive). No item or spell can give an inherent bonus, other than through modifying the source of the bonus (i.e., the stat).

Anyway, just an idea.