Redundant Rogue Talents? And Major Magic.

[Jadeite]

PF has a Ninja class now? And it's plainly better than Rogue? That would be a complete 180 from how things went down in 3.5!

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8igw

The ninja is okay, although it might be nerfed because people are complaining it's stronger than rogue or monk (it is, but I don't see that as a bad thing).

 

[Jadeite]

By the way, you can't flank with a wand (unless you plan to stab your enemy with it as an improvised weapon).

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The ninja is okay, although it might be nerfed because people are complaining it's stronger than rogue or monk.

Then it's doomed.

(I might actually try and read it later, if I have time)

 

[TanisFrey]

By the way, you can't flank with a wand (unless you plan to stab your enemy with it as an improvised weapon).

I can see a rouge flanking an enemy with a wand in one hand and a weapon in his other. Now, he threatens the foe with the weapon and AOOs but, chooses to use the wand for his primary attack each round. The rouge just needs to deal with the AOO he will provoke for using the wand in melee.

 

[Glade Riven]

Well, I never said there weren't risks...and if your turn is before the bad guys on the first turn, kaBLAM! Flat-footed toasty toast. Assuming you make the UMD roll. And the range-touch. Which, you should if they are flat-footed as well.

As far as the Ninja goes, if the rogue can get in on some of that action the way a ninja can use rogue talents, the class could be seeing a decent boost with Ultimate Combat.

 

[Jadeite]

Yeah, Ultimate Combat might certainly help the rogue. After all, Barbarians, Rangers and, to a certain extent, even monks got much better. There's no reason the rogue might not get a similar boost in usefulness, except of course the notion of the game's designers that the rogue is fine at it is.

And no, you can't flank with a ranged weapon, even if you happen to threaten the target with a different weapon. Unless you're a Zen Archer, of course.
Shocking Grasp or Chill Touch might work, though. Still rather pathetic.

 

[Volaran]

Well, I never said there weren't risks...and if your turn is before the bad guys on the first turn, kaBLAM! Flat-footed toasty toast. Assuming you make the UMD roll. And the range-touch. Which, you should if they are flat-footed as well.

Indeed. The wand would get more use for sneak attack under circumstances where the target is denied their dex bonus (first turn against an opponent that hasn't gone, or any situation under which the opponent is unaware of the rogue, etc.), which is really no different than any other circumstances in which you use a ranged sneak attack.

I'm pretty sure you can benefit from an opponent being flanked when you are using a wand with a melee touch spell (shocking grasp, inflict light wounds, etc.)

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

I could not find anything in the descriptions of flanking, or touch spells that would prevent you from benefiting from this. When using a melee attack (which should include a melee touch attack), flanking is more about making sure your ally is on the opposite boarder/corner at the time of the attack. Granted, once the touch spell was delivered, you would not be threatening the creature (unless you had a melee weapon drawn as well), and would not provide flanking bonuses to your ally.

 

[Glade Riven]

...Unless you're a Zen Archer, of course...

Odd, I'm not seeing it in my copy of the AGP...

 

[Jadeite]

Odd, I'm not seeing it in my copy of the AGP...

Reflexive Shot (Ex): At 9th level, a zen archer can make attacks of opportunity with arrows from his bow. The monk still threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes). This ability replaces improved evasion.

This should allow the monk to flank with his bow since he threatens adjacent squares.

 

[Glade Riven]

But it isn't flanking at range. Point Blank Shot covers using a range weapon while flanking, but flanking is a status that requires being in the foe's personal space by being adjacent to.

So you can use your bow when they move right next to you. That's not the same thing as shooting someone that moves within range of your bow.