Ref save vs. massive damage instead of Fort save?

[Quasqueton]

I have not played a game of d20 Modern yet, but I have read the rules and am interested in it. One of the things that doesn't feel right to me, though, is the Fort save for massive damage.

What would be the game system ramifications of changing the massive damage save from a Fort save to a Reflex save?

Having the MD save Fort based makes it feel like the bullets actually smack into the character, and he has to be strong (endurance) enough to continue standing. But my understanding of hit points, especially in a game with firearms and the like, are that they represent grazes, near misses, and such. To me, a Reflex save would reinforce that concept more than a Fort save.

So, I'm asking you folk who have experience with the game in actual play -- could a Reflex save work instead of the Fort save?

Thanks.

Quasqueton

 

[Fate Lawson]

I have not played a game of d20 Modern yet, but I have read the rules and am interested in it. One of the things that doesn't feel right to me, though, is the Fort save for massive damage.

What would be the game system ramifications of changing the massive damage save from a Fort save to a Reflex save?

Having the MD save Fort based makes it feel like the bullets actually smack into the character, and he has to be strong (endurance) enough to continue standing. But my understanding of hit points, especially in a game with firearms and the like, are that they represent grazes, near misses, and such. To me, a Reflex save would reinforce that concept more than a Fort save.

So, I'm asking you folk who have experience with the game in actual play -- could a Reflex save work instead of the Fort save?

Thanks.

Quasqueton

Well, the philosophy behind the Massive Damage rules, is that when a character suffers that much damage, it really indicates a "direct hit" so to speak. That is why the MD save is based on Fort. If you change to a Reflex save, you will change the Balance on certain classes. Your Strong, Tough and Dedicated hero classes will lose out against the Fast hero class, which will now have an advantage on the MD saves, as well as the advantage they already have on Defense against being hit at all, plus the Evasion ability etc etc etc. In addition you will totally nerf the advantages of some Talent Trees and Toughness based feats.

All in All, Not a good idea.

 

[ledded]

I agree. It's bad enough that tons of folks munchkin into a fast level or two for the AC boost, reflex saves, and evasion; giving them another reason to would be a bad and balancing idea IMO.

 

[takyris]

Ditto the other fellas.

Fortitude shouldn't stop a Medusa's gaze from petrifying you, either -- ain't nobody in the mythology who was so tough that her magic couldn't get 'em. In the game, it represents resisting the power of the magic or moving to minimize the blow, so that a shot to the neck turns out to only be a graze.

The Fast hero is close to overpowered as it is, even before people decide to customize the classes by saying, "Look, I made MY Fast Hero class! It has Fighter-type attack progression, but it's balanced by having fewer skill points per level."