Reflavoring 4E for Athas (Forked From: Dark Sun 4e: Can it work?)

[Mouseferatu]

Forked from: Dark Sun 4e: Can it work?

Dark Sun must be kept very different form usual campaign settings or, you destroy what made Athas a great place to play in!

*NO* dragonborn or tieflings at all, unless DM has them somehow come through a planar gate, and note, Dray are not dragonborn, almost no one who has seen one has lived, they do not wander across Athas, ever.
Read up on 'emm and see why Dray hide out in Draegoth's underground realm.

Okay, not to pick on Silverblade...

But I think jumping into a setting discussion with this level of opposition to any change is counter-productive.

I'm a huge Dark Sun fan, and I agree that part of what set it apart was its restrictions, as much as its options.

But I'm also a huge 4E fan, and I acknowledge that the game has changed in the past two editions.

I think it's a mistake for Dark Sun fans (or fans of any setting, for that matter) to automatically and categorically reject any/all changes to the details and canon of their setting. It's a new game, and while a setting shouldn't have to bend to fit the rules in all cases, neither should a new rules option be rejected just because it's new and therefore wasn't part of the original version. The trick isn't to ban the new stuff (or at least not all the new stuff); the trick is to make it work within the setting's aesthetic.

With that in mind...

Your Challenge:

Let's discuss how to include 4E's core elements in Dark Sun. How do we include the cleric, the paladin, the dragonborn, the tieflings, the fixed balance between classes, even the new cosmology, and make them feel enough like "real" Dark Sun that they slip in smoothly, without changing the overall feel of the setting? (We should also probably discuss other races that we know/suspect are coming, like the gnomes and the deva.)

The Rules:

You may change the flavor of these races and classes freely, in order to make them a better fit for Athas, but they cannot be dramatically changed mechanically. A few tweaks here and there are fine, but wholesale changes are not; the trick is to figure out how to make paladins (for example) fit in a way that feels Dark Sunny, not to transform them into a brand new class that isn't mechanically the paladin any longer.

Just for instance, a lot of people have speculated that goliaths appear in PHB2. If this proves to be true, and assuming they're mechanically similar to what they were in 3E, it seems to me that they could easily be "reskinned" into Dark Sun's muls. Brand new flavor, same mechanics.

And BTW, if you don't feel this is possible? Kindly feel free to click on some other thread. I have no interest at all in being told why this can't be done without "ruining the setting." The entire goal of this thread is to find ways that it can.

 

[Spatula]

Dragonborn: Needs a name change. Needs a history change. Fits ok into Athas otherwise - stranger things have appeared in Brom's Dark Sun paintings, walking around the cities. They could easily be a fierce, proud tribal race that roam the Hinterlands or some such; no need to tie them to the Dray. Thematically they sort of step on the mul's toes as the "big & strong" race.

Tieflings - Mechanically there's no issue, but the devilman look is very out of place. If you wanted to retain the "cursed, oh woe is me" aspect of their nature, they could be the scattered survivors (or descendants thereof) of that city-state in the north that got crushed and is now in ruins... forget the name.

Eladrin - dunno. Exceedingly faerie-type stuff does not fit in Dark Sun IMO.

Other PHB1 races - no issues. Dwarves are bald. The 3e/4e halfling is a good fit for Dark Sun halflings.

Other non-PHB1 races - not core, and thus not an issue.

 

[FireLance]

Sufficiently advanced psionics is indistinguishable from magic.

Dragonborn: reflavor them not as draconic humanoids that breathe energy, but as humanoids that channel energy psionically. Can't think of any 2e races that fit the bill, but you could use dromites or maenads which were introduced in 3e.

Eladrin: a race of Athasian elves who have become natural psychoporters.

Tiefling: a savage, desert-dwelling race that has become resistant to fire. You might even be able to re-flavor them as gith.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I have no Dark Sun experience, but I can see Dragonborn being some kind of lizardy creature living in the desert.

 

[Elphilm]

I think the Dragonborn will fit right in. Change the name, however - preferably to something less bland than Dray.

I have to say no to shoehorning Athas into the default cosmology. I feel that each setting can only benefit from being a unique creation rather than a part of some metanarrative. Hopefully this is a lesson learned from the dominance of Planescape in 2E. Dark Sun is not the setting for planar adventure, and considering the setting's themes of ecological disaster and survival in a barren world, other planes of reality simply feel superfluous.

 

[Mark Hope]

(Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about 4e and don't play it, but am a huge DS fan, so am chipping in my two ceramics...)

Dragonborn - make them dray. It's not a perfect fit, but can be made to work. If you advance the timeline to post-Dregoth Ascending, the dray can even have their own surface city (Raam).

Tielfings - mechanically, they're a bit like the ssurrans, with their fire resistance. So you could either morph them into ssurrans or make them another race that lives in the area around the Scorched Plateau.

Eladrin - make them the elves of Sylvandretta and leave it at that. Done and dusted.

Elves - give them some "elf run" ability and leave it there. Maybe make it a feat instead.

Dwarves - leave them as-is, but include a "focus" ability, or make it a feat.

Leave the other races as they are but change the flavour to suit.

You'd need to make new races for the kreen, pterrans, muls and half-giants (or re-skin existing ones).

Don't know enough about 4e classes to comment. Clerics need to get power from the elements, druids from the Spirits of the Land, and wizards from the land itself. Map these to existing power sources or make new ones. You can also have wizards who get magic from the Black, the Gray and the Cerulean storm, so you could have more power sources there too.

What are the 4e planes? Someone said in another thread that the Elemental Chaos (?) could be use for the elements. The plane that's like the Dark Umbra from WoD (forgot its name) could work as the Gray. The Feywild (the one like the Middle Umbra, iirc) could be reskinned to work like the Black, but you'd need to make it all spooky and shadow-like. The Astral exists, but is almost impossible to reach.

Anyway, it's totally possible to do, but I do wonder how strictly necessary it is to incorporate all the standard PHB elements into DS4e. Don't want to transgress Ari's request on not bashing his initial concept, but is that WotC's general approach for 4e? All PHB elements need to be in there?

 

[Irda Ranger]

I don't have any Dark Sun specific advice right now, but I just want to show how far you can repurpose mechanics. See my homebrew race: Firbolg (4E Race)

Those are Dragonborn mechanics. So if you think Eladrin are too fey, you really don't need to be limited by that.

 

[ferratus]

I don't know about needing to incorporate Eladrin and Tieflings are entirely necessary for 4e Dark Sun. What about the PHB2 races? The PHB3? Certainly I think WotC will want to keep the player options open for all of them in the settings they revive, but I don't think that they will necessarily make all the races equal in prominence in the setting, with their own civilizations.

The way I'd handle the standard D&D races that might not fit Dark Sun's flavour is to draw upon Dark Sun's history. Rajaat and the other sorcerer-kings anihilated standard D&D races like the gnomes righ? So any PC's that come from races that don't fit the setting could be last survivors of those genocidal times when the world was still green, and Athas had oceans.

 

[The Little Raven]

Unless it's going to be a reboot/reimagining (ala BSG), I'd move the timeline forward to wash away a lot of the "good guy winning" stuff that appeared after the first boxed set. My focus, in the post, is on the mechanical permutations.

- Races -

Dragonborn: As PHB. These are the dray. Former slaves of Dregoth, some have escaped captivity and attempt to make their way in the world.

Dwarf: As PHB. At least one new racial feat "Craftman's Focus [Dwarf]" would need to be created.

Craftman's Focus [Dwarf]
Prerequisite: Dwarf
Benefit: Select a magic item slot. Whenever you use the Enchant an Item ritual to create a magic item of that slot, you can create magic items of your level + 1, instead of just your level.

Eladrin: Not sure. I'd need to read my old DS boxed set in order to figure out where to fit them.

Elf: As PHB. Between their speed of 7 squares and their Light Step feat (which makes them move faster overland), I'm not sure I feel the need for an elven run feat. I have considered a feat called "Horizon Runner [Elf]," which would use your running speed (Speed + 2) to determine your base overland travel speed, instead of your walking speed.

Halfling: As PHB. Maybe swap out their "Second Chance" racial power for one that points to their cannibalism.

Conspicuous Consumption - Halfling Racial Power
You gain strength from devouring the freshly fallen.
Encounter
Standard Action - Melee 1
Requirement: You must be adjacent to a creature that has been killed since the end of your last turn.
Effect: You can spend a healing surge and add your Strength or Constitution modifier (choose at character creation) to the hit points regained.

Half-Elf: As PHB.

Human: As PHB.

Tiefling: Not sure. Need to do more research.

Others: Muls would need a new writeup, as well as Pterrans and Thri-Kreen. For Half-Giants, I'd be tempted just to use the Goliath from the PHB2, but I'm not sure about the Goliath's racial traits in 4e.

- Classes -

Cleric: As PHB, with minor changes. Instead of radiant being the most common type of damage, it will depend on the elemental aspects you choose. Cleric-only Channel Divinity feats would include "Blossom of the Sky" and such.

Fighter: As PHB.

Paladin: As PHB, with minor changes. Instead of radiant being the most common type of damage, it will depend on the Dragon-King you serve. You select a Dragon-King as your patron, and you are one of his/her templar champions. There would be paladin-only "Channel Divinity" feats for each Dragon-King, as well as paragon paths dedicate to the service of particular ones.

Ranger: As PHB.

Rogue: As PHB.

Warlock: As PHB, with new pacts. With the cosmology of Dark Sun, Infernal could be reflavored to "Defiler Pact," and with some good ideas, one could come up with a "Dragon-King Pact," to represent caster templars that serve Dragon-Kings. Paragon Paths for each Dragon-King would be shared with the paladin class templars.

Warlord: As PHB.

Wizard: As PHB. Technically Preservers by default, there could be feats for Preserver and Defiler, both of which relate to critical hits. Preserver could require you to spend a healing surge to turn a normal attack into a critical hit, while Defiler could remove a healing surge from an enemy when you hit them with a critical hit.

Others: PHB2 Primal classes are a no-brainer for this setting. The Sorcerer would fit pretty well, and I think the Bard would as well (with a paragon path or feat/power chain to replicate "Athasian Bards"). Barbarians could probably remain as they are, and Druids might need a little reflavoring to reflect animals of Athas origin. Not 100% sure on the other two Primal classes, but I suspect they'd work. The two Divine classes, however, I'm unsure about, since they haven't been revealed. If one is the Inquisitor, that might make a good class for templars as well.

 

[Aristotle]

I still thnk Dragonborn as an eventual evolution of the Dray (in a timeline advanced setting) would work. They would look a little different, maybe have a different racial ability. Elves, Halflings, Humans, and Dwarves are all good to go. Tiefling poses a problem, though I've always thought of the setting as being racially diverse... I bet they could be added with minimal fuss. Eladrin could be a more secretive sect of elves. It's really all about the fluff.

I'd use Goliaths in place of Half Giants, and maybe make "Half Giant" an alias or derogatory name for them. Devas would require more research. I forget the other expected PHB2 races.

Muls, Kreen, and Pterrans would need racial writeups. I'd be fine with the Pterrans and Thri-Kreen being a MM race personally but others feel more strongly in favor of them I'm sure.

Clerics could remain as sun priests. Elemental power source will cover the rest of the clerics, and Primal will cover the druids. Paladins could possible remain, but some rewriting would need to be done.

Fighter, Ranger, and Warlord are all fine as is. Rogue covers both rogue and bard and doesn't really need to be renamed to fit. Gladiator could be a new class, but I'd rather see it as a paragon path open for anybody who might be exposed to the arenas.

Wizards would still be wizards, and practice Preserver techniques by default, but feats and paragon paths would allow for Defiler advancement at a cost. Warlocks would remain, though some pacts might be excluded. A Sorcerer King pact would be put in place for templars, but not all templars would have to be warlocks. Artificer could be in or out, and Swordmage can stay in the realms.