reflex save from call lightning and being blinded

[Kershek]

An opponent is blinded by Glitterdust. Then, a bolt of lightning shoots down from the sky and hits the opponent. Does he get any penalty to his reflex save for not being able to see it coming?

 

[hong]

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[the Jester]

Not by the RAW, no, but I'd say a circumstance penalty would be reasonable. (I don't impose one myself, though- it'd be too hard to remember to keep track of that kind of stuff.)

 

[Liquidsabre]

Jester's right, but it'd be perfectly reasonable to tack on a simple -2 to that Reflex SV due to blindness.

 

[Li Shenron]

Blinded: The character cannot see. He takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a –4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.

Strangely, a blinded creature has penalty to AC, loses Dex bonus to AC and has -4 on Dex-based skill checks, but not specifically Reflex saves.

I agree that a circumstance penalty may be house-ruled, but I am not sure if I'd use it.

 

[Darklone]

Well, if you apply any penalty on the saving throw, I assume Uncanny Dodge would help ?

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, if you apply any penalty on the saving throw, I assume Uncanny Dodge would help ?

Because you cannot see it? If you house rule some penalties to Reflex when blinded (and not just against this spell) I would definitely agree that UD should be taken into account in some way.

 

[Stalker0]

Didn't the faq clarify that you do lose your dex bonus to reflex saves when you lose your dex bonus?

If that's true, you shouldn't get your dex bonus to the save.

 

[Camarath]

Didn't the faq clarify that you do lose your dex bonus to reflex saves when you lose your dex bonus?

If that's true, you shouldn't get your dex bonus to the save.

This are the only thing in the FAQ that I could find that deal with Reflex saves and Dex bonus. Both entries are quite clear IMO that losing one's Dex Bonus to AC is not that same as losing one's Dex bonus for all purpose (as one does when Cowering).


Suppose a character makes a trip attempt against a foe
who is flat-footed. Now, the foe loses her Dexterity modifier
against the melee touch attack that the attacker makes as
part of the trip attack, but does she also lose her Strength
modifier when resolving the trip attempt (assuming that the
melee touch attack succeeds)? Normally, one can resist a
trip attempt with either a Strength or Dexterity check. Is
using Dexterity an option if you’re caught flat-footed?
Similar questions arise when trying to grapple, bull rush,
and disarm flat-footed opponents.
Being flat-footed negates your Dexterity bonus to Armor
Class, but it does not affect your ability to make opposed rolls.
Your ability to react to danger is somewhat compromised when
flat-footed, but only slightly. For example, you become subject
to sneak attacks, but you make saving throws (even Reflex
saving throws) normally.
If you’re caught flat-footed and an opponent attempts to trip
you, you lose your Dexterity bonus (assuming you have one) to
Armor Class against the initial touch attack, but you make the
ensuing opposed roll normally. You still can use either
Dexterity or Strength for your opposed roll. (The attacker
always uses Strength.)
The same is true for grappling: You lose your Dexterity
bonus against the grab, but you make a normal opposed roll
against the hold.
Bull rushing and disarming don’t require initial attack rolls
against the targets, so it isn’t any easier to carry out these
actions against flat-footed opponents than it is against more
active foes.


Exactly when can a character make a Reflex saving throw?
The saving throw section on the Player’s Handbook says
Reflex saves depend on a character’s ability to dodge out of
the way. Does that mean you can’t make Reflex saves if you
can’t move?
A character can attempt a Reflex save anytime she is
subjected to an effect that allows a Reflex save. A Reflex save
usually involves some dodging, but a Reflex save is not
completely dependent on a character’s ability to move around.
It also can depend on luck, variations in the effect that makes
the save necessary in the first place, and a host of other
miraculous factors that keep heroic characters in the D&D
game from meeting an untimely fate.
In most cases, you make Reflex saves normally, no matter
how bad your circumstances are, but there are a few conditions
that interfere with Reflex saves:
• If you’ve suffered Dexterity damage or Dexterity
drain, you must use your current, lower Dexterity
modifier for your Reflex saves.
• If you’re cowering, you lose your Dexterity bonus (if
any). The maximum Dexterity bonus you can have
while cowering is +0, and that affects your Reflex
saves accordingly.
• If you’re dead, you become an object. Unattended
objects can’t make saving throws.
• If you’re entangled, your effective Dexterity score
drops by –4, and you must use your lower Dexterity
modifier for Reflex saves.
• If you’re exhausted, your effective Strength and
Dexterity scores drop by –6, and you must use your
lower Dexterity modifier for Reflex saves.
• If you’re fatigued, your effective Strength and
Dexterity scores drop by –2, and you must use your
lower Dexterity modifier for Reflex saves.
• If you’re frightened or panicked, you have a –2
penalty on all saving throws, including Reflex saving
throws.
• If you’re helpless, your Dexterity score is effectively
0. You still can make Reflex saves, but your
Dexterity modifier is –5. You’re helpless whenever
you are paralyzed, unconscious, or asleep.