D&D General Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E

[Hussar]

yeah, that is just evading the topic, not addressing it. It’s the gun that needs to reflect that, not inconsistent stat blocks

Not at all.

The fact that people can “get into character “ while having ludicrously inconsistent weapon damages but apparently having those damages tied to completely arbitrary numbers makes the “reigned” is the heart of the discussion.

Why is it impossible to believe that a monster does different damages with a weapon than a pc does?

 

[Maxperson]

Not at all.

The fact that people can “get into character “ while having ludicrously inconsistent weapon damages but apparently having those damages tied to completely arbitrary numbers makes the “reigned” is the heart of the discussion.

Why is it impossible to believe that a monster does different damages with a weapon than a pc does?

What inconsistent weapon damages? I haven't seen weapon damage change from PC to PC without some sort of ability or stat increase the damage. The weapon damage remains consistent.

 

[TiQuinn]

Yes?

If you think monsters should be built exactly like PCs and all features interchangeable, D&D and it's like ilk are bad systems for you. I don't want to run a bunch of monsters with the complexity of PCs ever again. I did it for a decade and a half in 3.x and I was so burned out by the end I almost quit TTRPGs. I'm absolutely fine with NPCs and monsters getting special abilities no PC can have.

I’m fine with this too but then can we at least call it a special ability or just say the average hobgoblin is the equivalent of an X level fighter? Give me some sign that this wasn’t arbitrary. It’s all I’m asking.

 

[GobHag]

I'd prefer they be honest and save wordcount rather than justify it.

 

[mamba]

Why is it impossible to believe that a monster does different damages with a weapon than a pc does?

because it is inconsistent with how weapons are handled on the character side / in the game. A weapon does a fixed range of damage, any variation comes from stats and skills.

When I look at the item description it says damage ‘1d8’, not ‘it’s complicated’…

 

[Maxperson]

I'd prefer they be honest and save wordcount rather than justify it.

Reason =/= justification. Justification is what we have to do because they provided no reason.

 

[Hussar]

What inconsistent weapon damages? I haven't seen weapon damage change from PC to PC without some sort of ability or stat increase the damage. The weapon damage remains consistent.

Does your in game character know that my fighter used a Battlemaster feature, a feat or some other thing to deal the completely opaque amount of damage that your character cannot possibly quantify?

Again, unless characters in the game world have glowing numbers popping out of their heads Final Fantasy style during combat, NOTHING you narrate is EVER tied to mechanics. It absolutely cannot be. Combat is far, far too abstract.

But, this is going to hedge over to HP=Meat debates very shortly. And that way lies madness.

See, because, no, the weapon damage is NEVER consistent. I stab one human with a sword and kill him instantly. I stab another human with a sword and barely scratch him. In both instances, my character did IDENTICAL actions, same die rolls, same damage rolls, everything is 100% the same from my character's point of view. But, because of completely invisible (from the POV of the character) forces that cannot be quantified or measured in any way (again from the character's POV), these two naked humans who look identical in every way, will respond completely differently to my attack. One dies instantly with a sword to the chest, the other is barely scratched.

Now, how do you explain that?

 

[Hussar]

because it is inconsistent with how weapons are handled on the character side / in the game. A weapon does a fixed range of damage, any variation comes from stats and skills.

When I look at the item description it says damage ‘1d8’, not ‘it’s complicated’…

Again this needs repeating.

NPCS DO NOT USE PC RULES.

 

[Maxperson]

Does your in game character know that my fighter used a Battlemaster feature, a feat or some other thing to deal the completely opaque amount of damage that your character cannot possibly quantify?

Again, unless characters in the game world have glowing numbers popping out of their heads Final Fantasy style during combat, NOTHING you narrate is EVER tied to mechanics. It absolutely cannot be. Combat is far, far too abstract.

See, because, no, the weapon damage is NEVER consistent. I stab one human with a sword and kill him instantly. I stab another human with a sword and barely scratch him. In both instances, my character did IDENTICAL actions, same die rolls, same damage rolls, everything is 100% the same from my character's point of view. But, because of completely invisible (from the POV of the character) forces that cannot be quantified or measured in any way (again from the character's POV), these two naked humans who look identical in every way, will respond completely differently to my attack. One dies instantly with a sword to the chest, the other is barely scratched.

Now, how do you explain that?

Probably. They have names and do extra damage and effects. Those are not normal longsword combat techniques used by people who are only proficient. They are going to be obvious to people.

Most abilities are going to be fairly obvious based on what they are named and do. Or do you think someone isn't going to notice the difference between a normal proficient attack and a menacing attack, or disarming attack, or commander's strike, or distracting strike, or...

None of those are normal attacks and all of them are obvious in what they do to increase the damage.

Weapon damage is nearly always consistent unless a fairly obvious ability is used to enhance the damage somehow.

 

[mamba]

Again this needs repeating.

NPCS DO NOT USE PC RULES.

I did not ask them to, I just asked for them to be consistent when using items PCs can use