D&D General Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E

James Gasik · Feb 19, 2025

ezo said:
Not my ideal character. My ideal characters I was always able to make in B/X and AD&D.

All I'm saying is, some character concepts can be quite complex, and don't often fit within the boundaries of the rules. When TSR would try to map out some characters, they were forced to break their own rules, so you ended up with things like:

Micah Sweet · Feb 19, 2025

James Gasik said:
All I'm saying is, some character concepts can be quite complex, and don't often fit within the boundaries of the rules. When TSR would try to map out some characters, they were forced to break their own rules, so you ended up with things like:

View attachment 397081

I feel this is what 2e was for. More content for better modeling on both sides of the screen. At least, that's what I used it for.

Guest 7037866 · Feb 19, 2025

James Gasik said:
All I'm saying is, some character concepts can be quite complex, and don't often fit within the boundaries of the rules. When TSR would try to map out some characters, they were forced to break their own rules, so you ended up with things like:

View attachment 397081

Oh, come on...

We all know TSR didn't create creatures (including those in Deities and Demigods) by the PC rules.

James Gasik · Feb 19, 2025

ezo said:
Oh, come on...

We all know TSR didn't create creatures (including those in Deities and Demigods) by the PC rules.

That's a character concept. That's how it was mapped out. The rules don't let you do it without the DM's permission. Does that mean that the concept is invalid?

If not, then you can't make this character in B/X or AD&D under normal circumstances. You might be able to in 3.e.

TiQuinn · Feb 19, 2025

James Gasik said:
That's a character concept. That's how it was mapped out. The rules don't let you do it without the DM's permission. Does that mean that the concept is invalid?

If not, then you can't make this character in B/X or AD&D under normal circumstances. You might be able to in 3.e.

If there’s one thing AD&D was not good for, it was getting very specific character concepts. At best it required particular magic items, lots of DM buy-in, custom kits, maybe custom classes, maybe some house rules. If that’s flexibility, it’s the same flexibility that one could port over to ANY system, I.E. homebrew whatever doesn’t work for you or is missing.

Maxperson · Feb 19, 2025

Remathilis said:
I'm counting separate versions of the game known as Dungeons and Dragons. Of which there are nine.

Versions =/= editions, though. So while you can count them if you want to, they don't actually count as editions of AD&D, since they are not actually editions. It's like saying that motorcycles count when talking about types of cars, because a motorcycle is a version of an automobile. While you can decide to count them, that doesn't make them actually count since they are not actually cars.

Remathilis · Feb 19, 2025

Maxperson said:
Versions =/= editions, though.

Cool. We agree 2024 is not a new edition.

Maxperson · Feb 19, 2025

Remathilis said:
1. Every edition of D&D has spawned a schism. I was there at the onset of 3e when lots of players who would embrace 3e years later steadfastly refused to move from AD&D (1, 2, or their personal heck).

You're arguing something he didn't claim. He didn't say there were no schisms in other editions. He right claimed the 3e schism was the largest and spawned Pathfinder, the game that knocked D&D 4e out of the number 1 spot. Also, the bolded never happened with 4e, so I'm not sure what your point was in claiming that they eventually went to 3e, because that just reinforces his point.

Remathilis said:
3. The changes made to 5e are minor when it comes to this, mostly used to increase consistent numbers rather than rely on work-arounds. If this whole debate is a sliding scale with 3e on one end and 4e on the other, 5e remains closer to 3e and has just nudge a small step towards 4e. It's no where near as disassociated as 4e.

5e is not disassociated with 4e. However, things like full overnight(brought to us by 4e) healing are one of the biggest points of contention in 5e. Another big point of contention with 5e is long rest(daily) abilities(powers) and short rest(combat) abilities(powers).