D&D General Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E

[Parmandur]

Where can I find the stats for spirit animals? Where do they come from? Is there a spirit animal somewhere in the MM that deals Force damage?

Stat blocks aren't real things, they are not "reified". Theybare mathematical game abstractions, juat like Spell effects.

 

[GobHag]

%.5 hasn't beeing ludified enough. Too many of it'sdesign principles are tied around to verisimilitude.

 

[TiQuinn]

I think someone just needs to throw “Neotrad” and “Postmodernism” into the conversation to see how quickly we confuse everyone.

 

[GobHag]

I love Neotrad, anyone that plays OSR is wrong. In fact, I'd consider neotrad Post-Post-Modern

 

[Krachek]

%.5 hasn't beeing ludified enough. Too many of it'sdesign principles are tied around to verisimilitude.

It remind me the old debates about rerolls and their disruptive effects of the verisimilitude principles.

 

[GobHag]

It remind me the old debates about rerolls and their disruptive effects of the verisimilitude principles.

Verisimilitude is a clown that is trottted out onto the stafe to make the evening better, not a king you should kneel to.

 

[Krachek]

Verisimilitude is a clown that is trottted out onto the stafe to make the evening better, not a king you should kneel to.

Indeed it was pretty hilarious to read about people playing an elf wizard that cannot admit that the fighter can make a reroll for the sake of the Verisimilitude.

 

[Teemu]

2014 Conjure Animals doesn't summon animals. It summons fake animals, fey spirits who mimic an animal's shape and then vanish into thin air once the magic ends or if you kill the creature. You can never actually summon animals even with the 2014 version of the spell.

“Words have meaning and you’re using the wrong ones” is a much more cogent argument than “I don’t understand what you mean when you say 6e.” Everyone dialed in enough to D&D to be discussing it on ENWorld understands what someone means when they say “6e.” We may take issue with their choice to call it that, but let’s at least express that issue directly instead of playing coy about it.

The claim isn’t that the 2014 rules were simulations of anything. It’s that the 2024 rules are more casual about using different rules for the same game object in different contexts than the 2014 rules were. In the 2014 rules, a longsword always did 1d8 damage in one hand and 1d10 damage in two hands, regardless of context. In the 2024 rules, a longsword still does 1d8 damage in one hand and 1d10 damage in two hands in the context of a PC wielding it. However, some monster stat blocks describe monsters using longswords but have them dealing a different amount of damage. This isn’t a problem, necessarily, but it is an observably different design choice.

The monster stat block vs PC wielding a longsword is better framed as monster vs PC attacking with the weapon. In 2014 5e, you can easily have a PC whose longsword attack doesn't deal 1d8 + Strength mod damage. For example, a battle master fighter will deal more than that with their maneuvers, adding extra dice. A barbarian who rages adds more flat damage. A war cleric can deal 2d8 + Strength mod damage with a longsword. Due to this, it makes perfect sense that a hobgoblin or any other kind of creature could deal more damage with a particular weapon, or even alter the weapon's damage die.

 

[Parmandur]

2014 Conjure Animals doesn't summon animals. It summons fake animals, fey spirits who mimic an animal's shape and then vanish into thin air once the magic ends or if you kill the creature. You can never actually summon animals even with the 2014 version of the spell.


The monster stat block vs PC wielding a longsword is better framed as monster vs PC attacking with the weapon. In 2014 5e, you can easily have a PC whose longsword attack doesn't deal 1d8 + Strength mod damage. For example, a battle master fighter will deal more than that with their maneuvers, adding extra dice. A barbarian who rages adds more flat damage. A war cleric can deal 2d8 + Strength mod damage with a longsword. Due to this, it makes perfect sense that a hobgoblin or any other kind of creature could deal more damage with a particular weapon, or even alter the weapon's damage die.

Also, since they are only going to be up and swinging for 2 or 3 Rounds, it can be interpreted as the Hobgobin nova-ing some theoretical ability on their part.

 

[TiQuinn]

2014 Conjure Animals doesn't summon animals. It summons fake animals, fey spirits who mimic an animal's shape and then vanish into thin air once the magic ends or if you kill the creature. You can never actually summon animals even with the 2014 version of the spell.


The monster stat block vs PC wielding a longsword is better framed as monster vs PC attacking with the weapon. In 2014 5e, you can easily have a PC whose longsword attack doesn't deal 1d8 + Strength mod damage. For example, a battle master fighter will deal more than that with their maneuvers, adding extra dice. A barbarian who rages adds more flat damage. A war cleric can deal 2d8 + Strength mod damage with a longsword. Due to this, it makes perfect sense that a hobgoblin or any other kind of creature could deal more damage with a particular weapon, or even alter the weapon's damage die.

Except that those are presented as understandable mechanics that allow you to see why the damage is different. No context is provided for the 2024 change; it’s just “because.”