reincarnate and favored classes
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. For the sake of simplicity stick with the new Favored Class. If you decide otherwise than keep that rule for all other instances. Aust Diamondew
First Post
I would say the favorded class does not change. Furthermore I would rule that you keep your weapon proficiencies gained from being an elf. And I might let you keep the +2 vs enchantment but probably not.
I agree with Scharlata.
I also strongly disagree with Aust Diamondew for the following reason - the character would end up with racial abilities from 2 different races at the same time. That just doesn't make any sense and places things out of balance without some LA beign applied.
The part under the spell description "(since it is no longer of its previous race)" while directly refering to racial ability adjustments it can be easily interpreted to apply to all racial abilities, etc.
If not then other things need to be considered - an elf has low light vision a 1/2 orc has darkvision - does the character get both? The ability score adustments are listed as racial traits the same as the other effects are.
I also strongly disagree with Aust Diamondew for the following reason - the character would end up with racial abilities from 2 different races at the same time. That just doesn't make any sense and places things out of balance without some LA beign applied.
The part under the spell description "(since it is no longer of its previous race)" while directly refering to racial ability adjustments it can be easily interpreted to apply to all racial abilities, etc.
If not then other things need to be considered - an elf has low light vision a 1/2 orc has darkvision - does the character get both? The ability score adustments are listed as racial traits the same as the other effects are.
favored class is a social thing
It seems to me that favored class is a social thing, e.g. dwarves tend to become fighters because that's part of their culture. Indeed, all dwarves undergo that dodging-giants training anyway.
Someone raised as an elf would spend a century as a child playing with magical baubles and watching the adults perform amazing/beautiful feats of wizardry, hence, a tendency for all elves to view wizardry as a natural choice.
Halfling culture is about resourcefulness and resilience, hence the tendency toward roguishness. Half-orcs are mocked and picked on by whomever raises them, so they quickly learn to be the schoolyard bully...
Imagine if a dwarven fighter/wizard were reincarnated as a gnome. Why would his favored class suddenly become bard? This would be absurd; gnomes tend toward bards because they are chatty and gossipy and showy. Someone raised as a dwarf would continue to be gruff and standoffish, and would not suddenly feel the need to become a bard.
Swapping low-light vision and darkvision is easy. What about training? Would that dwarf-turned-gnome lose his stonecunning? That doesn't seem right. Would the elf-turned-halforc suddenly not know how to make boots of elvenkind?
Note that boots of elvenkind do not require the wearer to be an elf; they only require someone with the knowledge of an elf create them. I would say that a magic item that requires the user be an elf MUST be created by an elf.
It seems to me that favored class is a social thing, e.g. dwarves tend to become fighters because that's part of their culture. Indeed, all dwarves undergo that dodging-giants training anyway.
Someone raised as an elf would spend a century as a child playing with magical baubles and watching the adults perform amazing/beautiful feats of wizardry, hence, a tendency for all elves to view wizardry as a natural choice.
Halfling culture is about resourcefulness and resilience, hence the tendency toward roguishness. Half-orcs are mocked and picked on by whomever raises them, so they quickly learn to be the schoolyard bully...
Imagine if a dwarven fighter/wizard were reincarnated as a gnome. Why would his favored class suddenly become bard? This would be absurd; gnomes tend toward bards because they are chatty and gossipy and showy. Someone raised as a dwarf would continue to be gruff and standoffish, and would not suddenly feel the need to become a bard.
Swapping low-light vision and darkvision is easy. What about training? Would that dwarf-turned-gnome lose his stonecunning? That doesn't seem right. Would the elf-turned-halforc suddenly not know how to make boots of elvenkind?
Note that boots of elvenkind do not require the wearer to be an elf; they only require someone with the knowledge of an elf create them. I would say that a magic item that requires the user be an elf MUST be created by an elf.
shilsen
Adventurer
irdeggman said:
I assume Aust Diamondew is not suggesting that the character get both sets of traits, which I agree would be overpowered. Some DMs (myself included) differentiate between physical and cultural racial traits and have a reincarnated character retain the cultural ones of its original race and gain the physical ones of the new race. Though this is not spelt out under the reincarnate spell description, even the PHB (pg.110) differentiates between inborn qualities and cultural features, so I'd say there's some justification for this approach.
Aust Diamondew
First Post
I was meaning that he should retain elven cultural and mental racial traits. The +2 str. for half orc won't help (probably) a wizard anyway.
I mentioned the +2 vs enchantment cause I don't know if that has to do with mental conditioning or something about the elven body that helps defend it.
Also it could be argued that it is a mental trait and just as you don't gain/loose points from mental abilities from changing race you do not loose the +2 vs enchantment.
I'd probably rule that he'd loose +2 vs enchantment in interest of game balance rather than do what is logical.
Like I said before I'd let him keep proficiencies and favored class from elf and gain +2 str. and dark vision from halfork.
And ofc he looses lowlight vision and gains darkvision.
I mentioned the +2 vs enchantment cause I don't know if that has to do with mental conditioning or something about the elven body that helps defend it.
Also it could be argued that it is a mental trait and just as you don't gain/loose points from mental abilities from changing race you do not loose the +2 vs enchantment.
I'd probably rule that he'd loose +2 vs enchantment in interest of game balance rather than do what is logical.
Like I said before I'd let him keep proficiencies and favored class from elf and gain +2 str. and dark vision from halfork.
And ofc he looses lowlight vision and gains darkvision.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
The book isn't a real help on this, but I personally feel that social and physical traits should be seperate.
Mental ability scores are kept in the case of reincarnation. Physical ability scores are not. By extrapolation, social (mental) racial traits could also be kept and physical racial abilities would change. In the case of magics (extraordinary/supernatural/spell-like), like the gnomes 1/day spell-like abilities, I would say they are physical as well.
If it is a problem of powergaming, just make the percentile roll a 1-time, must-live-with-it roll.
Mental ability scores are kept in the case of reincarnation. Physical ability scores are not. By extrapolation, social (mental) racial traits could also be kept and physical racial abilities would change. In the case of magics (extraordinary/supernatural/spell-like), like the gnomes 1/day spell-like abilities, I would say they are physical as well.
If it is a problem of powergaming, just make the percentile roll a 1-time, must-live-with-it roll.
Sejs
First Post
Reincarnate is a big pain in the arse.
Flat out.
Here's the deal - when you are reincarnated, you keep your own mind. A number of racial abilities are the result of growing up as a typical member of your society, favored class being one of them. I am of the oppinion that you should keep the favored class of your original race when you reincarnate.
When I DM and reincarnate issues come up, I list out the two races' abilities and go down marking each as physical or mental. Low light vision - easy, physical. Eyes that see in the dark. Racial bonus to craft with stone and metalwork -mm, I'd say that would be a result of growing up dwarven. And so when you get reincarnated, you gain the new race's physical abilities and keep your old mental ones.
Flat out.
Here's the deal - when you are reincarnated, you keep your own mind. A number of racial abilities are the result of growing up as a typical member of your society, favored class being one of them. I am of the oppinion that you should keep the favored class of your original race when you reincarnate.
When I DM and reincarnate issues come up, I list out the two races' abilities and go down marking each as physical or mental. Low light vision - easy, physical. Eyes that see in the dark. Racial bonus to craft with stone and metalwork -mm, I'd say that would be a result of growing up dwarven. And so when you get reincarnated, you gain the new race's physical abilities and keep your old mental ones.
