Reincarnate = Immortality?

[Hypersmurf]

This is why the only logical explanation, IMO, is that it resets the clock, and that you start aging at the appropriate speed of your new body. An Elf who comes back as a 20 year old Human could live another 50 or 60 years or so before dying of old age, because he's Human now and ages at Human speed.

So let's say we have a Middle-Aged elf - 250 years old or so, say. A dozen years shy of being Old.

He's taken a -1 decrease to his Str, Dex, and Con, and gained a +1 increase to Int, Wis, and Cha. If he makes it to Old, he'll take another -2 decrease to his Str, Dex, and Con, and gain another +1 increase to Int, Wis, and Cha... but before that happens, he's killed.

And Reincarnated in a 20-year-old human body, with no aging decreases to Str, Dex, or Con. But he retains his +1 increase to Int, Wis, and Cha.

What happens a dozen years later, when he's lived as long as an Old elf? Does he get the Old +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha? What about when his body reaches 35 - Middle-Aged for a human? Does he take the -1 decrease to Str, Dex, and Con? Does he gain the +1 increase to Int, Wis, and Cha for his body reaching Middle Age again? Does he gain +1 increase to Int, Wis, and Cha when his body turns 53, reaching Old for a human?

-Hyp.

 

[Falling Icicle]

What happens a dozen years later, when he's lived as long as an Old elf? Does he get the Old +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha? What about when his body reaches 35 - Middle-Aged for a human? Does he take the -1 decrease to Str, Dex, and Con? Does he gain the +1 increase to Int, Wis, and Cha for his body reaching Middle Age again? Does he gain +1 increase to Int, Wis, and Cha when his body turns 53, reaching Old for a human?

That's the million dollar question, and I wish the spell's text would have addressed it. I suppose a DM could rule that aging bonuses don't stack, so only the highest one would apply. Othwerise, repeatedly reincarnating as short lived races could allow you to rack up mental ability scores, and that would be ridiculous.

Another option is that the aging bonuses and penalties simply reset to +/- 0. Reincarnate says you remember much of your previous life, but not all of it. With this spell comes a fundamental change of identity, and one could reasonably argue that mental ability gains from aging in a previous life would be lost.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's the million dollar question, and I wish the spell's text would have addressed it. I suppose a DM could rule that aging bonuses don't stack, so only the highest one would apply. Othwerise, repeatedly reincarnating as short lived races could allow you to rack up mental ability scores, and that would be ridiculous.

Interestingly:
Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.

It mentions eliminating racial adjustments, but not decreases due to age...

Let's say I'm a half-orc with a 14 Str, including my racial +2 adjustment. I grow Middle-Aged and then Old, and my Str decreases by -1 and -2, leaving me with 11.

I die and get reincarnated in a new young adult gnome body.

I eliminate the +2 racial adjustment, and apply the gnome's -2. Do I perform these operations on the score of 11 I had when I died, or on the 14 I had when I was young?

-Hyp.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Interestingly:
Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.

It mentions eliminating racial adjustments, but not decreases due to age...

Well the key here is that it says it puts you into a new young adult body. I think it's pretty safe to assume that aging penalties to physical ability scores would no longer apply.

 

[Tiberius]

I eliminate the +2 racial adjustment, and apply the gnome's -2. Do I perform these operations on the score of 11 I had when I died, or on the 14 I had when I was young?

-Hyp.

Mathematically, it shouldn't matter. When performed on the score at death, we get:
11 - 2 (losing the orc bonus) - 2 (gnome penalty) + 3 (removal of age penalties that no longer apply) = 10

When performed on the original score we get:
14 - 2 (losing the orc bonus) - 2 (gnome penalty) - 0 (no age penalties to take into account yet)= 10

 

[Jack Simth]

Mathematically, it shouldn't matter. When performed on the score at death, we get:
11 - 2 (losing the orc bonus) - 2 (gnome penalty) + 3 (removal of age penalties that no longer apply) = 10

When performed on the original score we get:
14 - 2 (losing the orc bonus) - 2 (gnome penalty) - 0 (no age penalties to take into account yet)= 10

Umm.... the basic question is whether or not Aging Penalties are removed; the 14 starting assumes they are, the 11 starting assume's they're not. The reason your two lines come out mathamatically identicle is because you started with different assumptions, then ran your figures in such a way that assumes aging penalties are of course removed.... which is the immediate topic under question. If you're DMing, that's fine for your table; the rules as written aren't clear. For the debate establishing which is "right", it's not, as the arguement is relying on already being victorious... which isn't established.