Reinventing the Wheel: changing common D&D tropes

[drnuncheon]

These are from my (currently on hiatus) Freeport game.

1. adventurers as a separate class of people

True - but the PCs aren't adventurers - they started out as cops, and now their a noble and a crimelord. In fact, they generally regard adventurers like people who live in tourist traps regard tourists - annoying, stupid, and with far too much money for their own good.

2. PCs as exceptional characters

Well, by the time they get to their current levels, anyone's exceptional. But I did keep this - used 4d6 drop lowest and various other 'PC boosts'. I'm likely to continue doing it too: if I wanted gritty realism I wouldn't be posting from work.

3. clear distinction between PCs and monsters

Well...there's a sizable orcish population, does that count? Perhaps more to the point, most of their opposition comes in the form of other people rather than "monsters".

4. arcane/divine magic divide

Kept it (but in my AU game at the store, it's obviously gone)

5. PCs organized into a cooperative party structure

More of a friendship - but with two players it'd be difficult to do anything else.

6. medieval European setting (well, a more hygenic version, anyway)

More Renaissance really - printing press, firearms and the like all exist, the middle class is on the rise, etc.

7. race = culture

I assume you mean for nonhumans, since humans in most fantasy have cultures. Most of the nonhumans are closely integrated into the currrent society, and they're generally culturally 'human'. They preserve bits and pieces of their culture, but it's in the same way as an X-American preserves the culture of X.

8. epic or heroic plot scale

Mmm, nope - got that.

J

 

[Psion]

1. adventurers as a separate class of people
2. PCs as exceptional characters

Well, after rolling several hundred random character concepts for my game, it seems pretty obvious to me that while adventurer types are in the minority, they are hardly alone.

3. clear distinction between PCs and monsters

Ever since 3e hit with classed monsters, this wall has been tumbling. In my normal game, it's pretty classic still, but my plane hopping stretch should slap this in the face (especially as I'll be running Dendrii and Lizard Kingdoms side treks.)

4. arcane/divine magic divide

When I was putzing around with Shamans and Sorcerers-as-spirit-talkers, this was a real big bugbear to me. Since then, I've decided to pipe down and accept this one. A lot of flavor comes out of it.

5. PCs organized into a cooperative party structure

I almost think some variant of this is essential for any game I would want to run. I've had players represent entirely different interests before (an outgrowth of planescape) which is about as bold a variant on this as I am willing to entertain.

6. medieval European setting (well, a more hygenic version, anyway)

Again with the planehopping thing, I intend to wierd things up a bit.

7. race = culture

I've never been to strong on this. Dwarves and gnomes are pretty monolithic in my game. Humans and elves, OTOH, has a lot of splinter cultures with wierd implications.

This one stopped being an assumption for me once I started using World Builder's Guide

8. epic or heroic plot scale

Prefer it that way.

9. other things you have noticed and altered.

9a. Common language or other universal language, in different continents or planes, even! Out the window! Some dialects of older races have similarities stemming from a common root, but many languages are totally alien. To me, common is a placeholder for "the local human tongue or trade tongue."

9b. Sexual compatability of vastly different races. Halfbreeds come about through magic if they are not similar species IMC.

9c. (A 3e convention) Godless clerics and paladins. Gone. "Divine" in my game BY DEFINITION is derived from a higher power (though that power may be abstract by human definitions.)

 

[Afrodyte]

There are lots of good ideas being posted here that really change the dynamics of playing standard D&D. In particular, I like the ones about no cash economy and no universal languages. Good work. Keep 'em coming.

 

[Remathilis]

This is all from an (alas) abandoned campaign concept. My current game is strictly D&D by the book.

1. adventurers as a separate class of people

Well, my core concept was for a group of soliders to be stuck away from thier troop and get caught up in wild adventures, so they wouldn't be "adventurers" per se...

2. PCs as exceptional characters

Gotta go with this one. If the PCs aren't exceptional, its boring.

3. clear distinction between PCs and monsters

Well, since everything that isn't a natural fixture of this world is evil and created by demons...

4. arcane/divine magic divide

Nope. One magic, drawn from the land, and divided into black and white incantations. (with a boatload of grey/utility)

5. PCs organized into a cooperative party structure

God I hope so.

6. medieval European setting (well, a more hygenic version, anyway)

I guess an Arctic/Viking/Song of Fire and Ice style setting is European medieval by the litteral sense?

7. race = culture

Nope. One race, many cultures.

8. epic or heroic plot scale

My general rule is the more structured/story-based a game is, the damn well better be epic in scale. Kill and Loot D&D is what the conventions are for, IMHO.

9. other things you have noticed and altered.

Hmmm.... No alignment (evil is measured in taint), Generic Classes (UA, one caster class). No gods (long abandoned), No humanoids (cept some warped monsters like Grimlocks). No Good Outsiders. One type of universal demon/devil. Oh, and a sun thats dying.

I wish I had the time to make all my changes and keep it a consistant game, but I'm happy with just the traditional tropes.

 

[Galethorn]

So exactly like medieval Europe then

Nope, 400 years before medieval europe

 

[Afrodyte]

*pokes thread back on topic*

 

[Desdichado]

trope n.

1. A figure of speech using words in nonliteral ways, such as a metaphor.
2. A word or phrase interpolated as an embellishment in the sung parts of certain medieval liturgies.

I keep the first definition of trope quite frequently in my games, but I honestly don't think I've ever maintained the second definition of trope.

However, since by trope you really mean genre convention, let's see:
1. adventurers as a separate class of people
Not really. Although this isn't really so unusual -- at various times in Western history, adventurers have been a separate class of people. The Mountain Men of the early American West, or the archtypical cowboy of the later American West being two good examples that I can think of without too much effort...

2. PCs as exceptional characters
Yeah, most NPCs are, if I bothered classing them, 1st or 2nd level commoners, experts or aristocrats or somesuch. The PCs started as 3rd level PC classes, so they were exceptional right off the bat.

3. clear distinction between PCs and monsters
Well, yeah, since the monsters are undead and fiends. But many of the PCs adversaries are simply NPCs.

4. arcane/divine magic divide
No, all magic is freakishly unnatural.

5. PCs organized into a cooperative party structure
Unless you're running a game with one or two players, or are purposefully concentrating on interparty conflict, this seems to be about the only way to do things.

6. medieval European setting (well, a more hygenic version, anyway)
Nope, I ditched that one.

7. race = culture
That one two, although I don't have any of the traditional demihumans.

8. epic or heroic plot scale
Depends on what you mean by epic. We're not about save the world, but we are at least dealing with realistically nation-threatening goings-on.

 

[Wombat]

Okay, I'll try my hand at this.

1. adventurers as a separate class of people

Nah, hasn't been true for years in my campaigns. "Adventurer" is only a job description in my comedy campaigns.

2. PCs as exceptional characters

Well, more like "PCs and important NPCs", essentially those who qualify to be "Classed" characters, as opposed to "NPC Classed". I never really had a problem with this one. To quote W.S. Gilbert, "If everybody's Somebody, then no one's Anybody."

3. clear distinction between PCs and monsters

No problem here. There are civilizations and then there are semi-roaming predators. Then again, I've taken this further steps (see below).

4. arcane/divine magic divide

Since I currently use AU, this is not even an issue.

5. PCs organized into a cooperative party structure

This is rather vague. Do you mean as opposed to half a dozen individuals going there own seperate ways, only working together if they can't face a particular challange? Or do you mean parties shouldn't work as small-scale democracies? In my current campaign everyone belongs to the same club/secret society, thus there are reasons for them to cooperate. But given how the point is raised, I'm not really sure what the objection is.

6. medieval European setting (well, a more hygenic version, anyway)

I've worked with a lot of different settings. The current one is late 16th/early 17th century as far as the Not-Europeans are concerned, but Classical Maya (thus about 500 years earlier) as far as the Native Peoples are concerned, mixed with a third group that is more or less Ming Chinese (thus about 1-200 years off). Then again, the hygene isn't that much better than reality, given the paucity of healers and still a lack of the germ theory, etc. (I never assumed that magic would lead to modern physical/biological, etc., understanding of the world.) So it is sort of Renaissance-y, but that is still pretty much "medieval" in the common parlance of the 20th century. There are lots of religious, social, political, and economic upheavals, if that makes things nicer...

7. race = culture

Nah, got rid of this a long time ago. Species ("race") is the hardwiring of your character -- a litorian is shaped different from a human, etc. Being Mavargan (one example culture), however, could apply to almost any species, assuming they are brought up within its dictates. And, of course, there are many identifiable subcultures. Thus a litorian could be raised under Akapan, nomadic litorian, Mavargan, Hautomoni, or any of a host of other cultures. More fun this way

8. epic or heroic plot scale

I go back and forth on this one. Sometimes I do have epic (but not Epic Handbook) plots; sometimes I have simpler personal goals. It all depends on the mood of the players and the needs of the game.

9. other things you have noticed and altered.

The overabundance of sentient species! In my current campaign, all the sentient species may be played as PCs, but this also means that there are (compared to most fantasy games) very few sentient species. The only sentients that the players may not choose are undead (but they might become undead, at which point they may not longer player that PC).

Alignments. The bane of most games.

Vast numbers of planes of existence that all cultures look upon in exactly the same way. This is out both in terms of how cultures view them (each see them differently) and the number of planes "known" about (only about 3-4 "planes" per culture, including heaven & hell analogs, etc.). Mortals do not visit these "planes".

Easy social mobility, based on wealth and physical prowess. I prefer much more limited social mobility -- one does not begin life as a peasant and end it as a duke simply due to plundering old graveyards.

Dungeons a la D&D. What is up with these? Who would build them? Why? Gone.

Characters identified by their character class. People don't go down the road saying, "Hi! My name is Al! I am a 3rd level Fighter!" Instead they say something like "Hi! I'm Al! I've fought in the last war against the Akapans as a pikemen and now work as a caravan guard. I heard you need someone handy with a halberd."

 

[kigmatzomat]

The title is pretty-much self-explanatory, but I'll elaborate. How have you altered the standard setting and roleplaying tropes of D&D?

1. adventurers as a separate class of people


Meh, adventurers are a class of people just like skydivers are a class of people, or soldiers. If you mean upper/lower class, nah, they're people. Adventurers wind up in the merchant class by default; they have nice gear, spend vast sums of money but no title and likely no land.
I was grateful to MMS:WE for giving me a title to hang on them; patriciate.



2. PCs as exceptional characters


Well, they *are* exceptional but they are not fated or anything. Anyone could rise to the challenge but most people simply won't. These people could be said to be mentally deficient, since few sane people will do the stupid things they do.


3. clear distinction between PCs and monsters


I blur this on purpose. Dragons rule my world, allies involve renegade dragons, mimics, swamp-dwellers, ogres, thanoi, and a few undead.

A monster is what's on the inside, not the outside.


4. arcane/divine magic divide


Feh. I'm in Krynn. Arcane magic comes from gods and can be turned off.


5. PCs organized into a cooperative party structure


Mostly but I have nothing to do with that.


6. medieval European setting (well, a more hygenic version, anyway)


Solamnia for the most part, so yeah. But ventured into the grassy wastes (africa), the arctic regions, high seas, a volcanic area, etc, etc.


7. race = culture


Nope. Nation is the foundation of culture. Elves have the one functional nation since t'other one got turned into a living nightmare so there's a "heritage" culture. Same with dwarves. But the races are integrated into the culture of their birth. Solamnics of all races tend to be rather egalitarian while the Khuri Kaa'an are insular hagglers.


8. epic or heroic plot scale


Sliding. I started mundane ("Auuugh, mudslide! Auuugh, wild dogs!") moved up through heroic ("Auugh, bullette! Augh, dire cape buffalo!") and have ventured to the edge of epic ("Augggh, elemental tempest! Auugh, nightcrawler!").


9. other things you have noticed and altered.


Taxes, finances, and rewards. I like a rational, if not entirely accurate, economy. So to deal with some of the treasure factor and make things a bit more rational, the party has been given opportunities to make investments with trade houses.
They've been doing so for a few seasons now and making decent money. While at first it was something of a freebie ("you have helped us greatly. Our liquid assets are finite so we could reward you with the cash we have on hand ...ORRRRR we could give you a share in our carvan.") they have learned to use their knowledge to manipulate markets. (sending to ally "Hey, we just sank a boatload of mithral. You might want to buy some up now and maybe hire a salvage team...." or my favorite "There's going to be a massive invasion of undead right around harvest time across the entire planet. Lay in all the long-term staples and early-harvest foodstuffs you can get.")

Government is ... reverse normal. We're used to a figurehead monarch (queen of england) and a functional cabinet/house. In my game the monarch rules with an iron claw and the rank and file government exists to deal with piddly stuff and provide the illusion of self-rule.

Religion has also been modified. The new gods are the focal point of a concept. All clerics follow the concepts more than the god so there's no alignment restrictions except on concepts that involve good, evil, order and chaos. Gods can be killed and replaced but no one can have more than one portfolio because the concepts are unique. I gleefully stole quite a bit from the Incarnations books but removed the "overgod" concept.
Internal religious conflicts are much more common since a god cannot shut down a cleric's spellcasting. (They can still bolt from the blue, though) You end up with wide alignment ranges and ideas on implementing concepts. Splinter churches are the norm with few monolithic religions.

 

[Turjan]

How have you altered the standard setting and roleplaying tropes of D&D?

1. adventurers as a separate class of people

Although I played with the thought of giving everybody a base of 2 levels commoner, I decided that it's probably not worth the effort. This is probably that kind of realism that furthers verisimilitude but does not really add much to the game. Perhaps I will come back to this later.

2. PCs as exceptional characters

In the start, no. Later, yes. It's their story, so there must be something exceptional about them. On the other hand, I like them to be bound into some social network that tends to relativize their position.

3. clear distinction between PCs and monsters

In what sense? Yes, there are monsters. The other sentient races are not, although they might be bitter enemies. I don't have funny monsters as PC's, if that is meant.

4. arcane/divine magic divide

Similar to many other posters, I like the AU approach. IMC, religion plays a big role, but the gods don't. Magic is magic. The PCs' approach to magic may vary, but there are no fundamental differences as the approach to healing magics go. There's no need to have a cleric IMC (there aren't any). I don't have campaigns based on undead, either.

5. PCs organized into a cooperative party structure

They should, because everything else does not really make much fun for a campaign. However, there's neither a need for clerics nor for rogues, which leaves the players with more open decisions.

6. medieval European setting (well, a more hygenic version, anyway)

Is there any medieval European setting around on the market ? Perhaps Harn. Anyway, I think the question goes more into the direction of "standard fantasy" with kings, walled cities and swords. Yes, I have parts of the main continent IMC that are like this. It's something like an anchor for the imagination, where PC's can start their careers into an unknown world without having the burden to be forced to learn too much. Greater parts of the continent are vastly different, though.

7. race = culture

Hmm, not really. As I have only three main sentient species (races) on the main continent with comparable influence/power each (humans, elves, trolls (goblinoids)), each of the races is equally diverse regarding their cultures. The arrangement of friends and foes does not necessarily follow racial borders, so there is some give and take at some places, whereas at others there are strict borders.

8. epic or heroic plot scale

I'm not into epic plots. Well, maybe making peace between warring nations counts as epic, does it? Or the quest for the origin of humankind and the arcane gift on their home continent? No plane-hopping, though.

9. other things you have noticed and altered.

Alignment had to go. I noticed that my younger players tended to have problems with this. Better to say, I had problems with their concepts. "I take chaotic neutral, because then I can do everything I want!". This way of reasoning is gone together with the alignment .

The well sorted pantheon is out. All these fantasy pantheons tend to be built on some idealized version of the Greek pantheon. Even in old Greece, practical religion had not much to do with this fiction from mythology. It's the same IMC. Gods are regional and may have overlapping "portfolios". Of course, everybody claims that "his" god is the greatest. On the other hand, the gods stay out of everyday affairs. It's the normal people that make the stories.