Relation Between Message Board Visitors and Product Purchasers

[trancejeremy]

Well, actually, Fast Forward was in dire straits for a while. I think it's only recently that they've started publishing again, and I think they've only put out 2 books since their recent difficulties


Here you go:

http://fastforwardgames.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=308&whichpage=2

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=11108&mode=thread&order=0

Though they do appear to be back on their feet - they shipped 2 products in March, and apparently 2 more in June, just recently. So I was a little off. (Which is good news, since I actually own quite a few of their products. Their ideas are very good, but their implementation is off)

Were they hurt by ENWorld? Dunno, but they certainly weren't helped by it. Though they don't make much effort working the internet - you never see them anyplace but their message boards. Mongoose is a pretty big company, but you see their head guy everywhere. Does he have to do that? No, but it doesn't hurt.

 

[pogre]

Myself and two other guys in my group come to these boards on a regular basis. One buys everything d20, especially WOTC stuff - I do not believe he has purchased any PDFs. The other buys a lot of RPG materials and I know he has been tempted to buy a few things PDF, but I'm not sure if he has. I have only purchased a couple of PDFs personally.

There are three other guys in the group who purchase a sizeable amount of noncore material. One is a Kazaa guy, but only uses WOTC PDFs (he owns all the D&D books). The other two are guys who buy all things Forgotten Realms and that's about it.

The connection I think you are looking for is message board users are much more likely to be the PDF market - man, I gotta believe that is true. Probably much less true when it comes to printed products, especially those from the big boys.

 

[RCanning]

I have two major gaming groups.

One has 7 people, and of that I am the only real purchaser of gaming products. It being my favourite hobby, where as they treat it as an evening of entertainment. They have have the PHB, but that is about it.

One has 6 people, with only 2 crossover. Of that group, one regularly buys WotC product, but I have never seen him get anything else. The others don't even have a PHB, they run from a copy of the SRD, as they don't need to know the level advancement rules, the DM does it all for them.

I purchase about $100 worth of gaming stuff a month, about 80% of which is PDF (over the last 3 months anyway). Of the people I know who buy a lot of RPG material just because it is there, or because it might be cool, 12 out of 15 I know on various messageboards.

I don't think we are a majority of their target audience, but then, we talk to most of the rest of their target audience on a semi-regular basis. After all, we hold gatherings, they are called "gaming sessions".

Richard Canning

 

[Setanta]

3) New group just starting tonight! Six players and one DM (same DM as #2, above). No big surprise - only two of us visit the message boards and, again, we're the only two who buy supplemental d20 books. This one is *slightly* different in that we're playing in a "Dawnforge" campaign and so several people bought the Dawnforge CS. But, I should point out that all of these players are players in either group #1 or #2, above, and so already purchased their Player's Handbook a long time ago. For over 2/3 of this group, buying the Dawnforge: Crucible of Legend CS is only the third d20 product they've purchased in the past 4 years (after the 3.0 and 3.5 PH).

Actually, I had to buy the Dawnforge campaign setting book for one of them as a birthday present, so I'm not sure that counts, as it really means I've just bought the book twice.

This is an interesting thread. Samothdm has pretty well summed up the people we play D&D with. Both of us have thousands of dollars worth of D20 stuff, while everyone else we game with has little more than Player's Handbooks.

With print runs only being a couple thousand, it certainly seems that we message boarders are not an insignificant number.

 

[Samothdm]

Well, I think it really depends upon who you're talking about.

Last time they checked (back in 1999, I think) there were about 1.5 million players of D&D out there. WotC is selling to them. We message board folks are not significant by comparison..

Sure, there may be 1.5MM players, but how many of those are also purchasers of product? That's my point.

Yes, the number of message board users is not a very big number. However, I suspect that once you get beyond the purchase of the Player's Handbook, you'll find that message board users make up a disproportionate amount of sales of other products, both print and PDF. I'm not saying a huge percentage - but a disproportinate amount compared to actual ratio of MB users versus the total player population.

It's kind of like politics. You don't write off an entire group of people who may "only" represent 10% of the voting population and say that they are "insignificant". That's just not good politics (or good business).

Several board users over in the Publishing Forum seem to think the opposite - that we (all gaming board users, not just here at ENWorld) "can't move mountains" or make a dent in the grand scheme of things. I'm not entirely convinced that's true.

 

[BradfordFerguson]

Fast Forward's products are horrendous, there's no way to talk around that issue. I'm not surprised that they ran into money issues. Their back issues routinely sell for 70% off retail on Ebay. Anyways...

The Internet fanboy, such as myself, cannot be discounted because I talk. I write reviews on products and I usually tell the people that I game with what I think about a product, or even which companies are now producing consistently good product (Malhavoc, The Game Mechanics, Green Ronin, RPG Objects). Bastion Press seems to be on a roll after making some changes (Doomstriders was good and Into the Blue looks good), though they seem to be skimping on printing costs by using some kind of inkjet printing technology. I'm never bashful when I talk to the people I game with, and the subject of different products usually comes up before or after a game.

 

[maddman75]

I would say that message board posters make up *virtually all* of the PDF purchasers. I mean if not for the boards, how would a gamer even *know* about DriveThruRPG or even RPGNow?

 

[Thanatos]

In the 2 games I am in:

8 players: 5 of us buy supplemental materials and 4 or 5 are regular message board readers/posters.

3 players: 2 of us buy supplemental materials and all of us are regular message board readers/posters.

In my old group (entirely different people) there were 10 of us and easily 7 or 8 were message board readers/posters but only 6 regularly bought supplemental material.

I get the impression my groups have been in a minority.

 

[WingOver]

I have 8 players/DMs in my group.

1 - (me) Actively reads ENWorld, not rpg.net. I buy mostly WOTC products. Only purchased 2 PDFs (Book of Eldritch Might and Magical Medieval Society).
1 - occasionally reads ENWorld. Buys a lot of product, mostly WOTC.
1 - doesn't read ENWorld. Buys a lot of product, mostly WOTC; minis.
1 - doesn't read ENWorld. Buys some product, mostly NON-WOTC.
3 - doesn't read ENWorld. Buys some product, mostly WOTC; minis.
1 - doesn't read ENWorld. Had to get on him to buy the PHB 3.5.

It looks like my group isn't typical of what's represented in this thread so far...

 

[Buttercup]

Of all the people I game with, the only one who probably owns more d20 material than me would be Steve Creech, but he posts here so you can ask him yourself how much stuff he has.

Presently, I've got over 50 PDFs, most of which were not free. I have so many books I can't even remember what I've got anymore. They're not all in the same room, but if they were, I estimate they'd take up 12 running feet of bookshelf space. (Assuming I had that much empty bookshelf space!)

In addition, I'm an unusual case. Not only do I buy truckloads of D20 stuff for myself, and recommend it to others, I also buy it for my library, and recommend that other librarians buy certain titles too. Naturally I'm only referring to print products here. So, though I don't wish to sound immodest, I probably do have some small degree of influence in my local area.