Relative Rarity of Precious Metals

I think you all might be missing a major point. Coinage is simplified in the game for a good reason.

There are tons of places to inject flavor into your games. But, let us be frank - for the vast majority of players, I dare say that worrying about exchange rates is not happy fun times. It very quickly even ceases to be flavorful. It becomes (like modern financial transactions) just more paperwork, and/or annoyance at having a speedbump between the player characters and even basic purchases.

Find a place in inject flavor where dealing with that flavor becomes an *interesting* activity for the player.
 

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Or, to put it a different way: how much time do you want your players to spend doing currency exchanges when they cross borders? It may not be so bad within a nation, but if you're dealing with city-states? Or an ancient treasure trove?

Every.
Damn.
Time.
They.
Resupply.
They.
Have.
To.
Change.
Currency.

Not fun.
 

If you want to muck around with a FRPG's money system and NOT increase the boring factor, take a different page from history. Don't look at the precious metals, look at the early forms of paper that were used to obviate the frequent transport of huge pikes of physical currency. By the rise of the Venetian traders, things like promissory notes, money orders, early checks, and the like were already in existence.

For example: merchants tired of being robbed on a regular basis started sending notes to each other. These note detailed a running tally of who owed what to whom in a given transaction. Currency only changed hands once a month, in order to balance the books of each merchant. Those slips of paper, then, were valuable. Perhaps not as valuable as the transactions they covered, but still worth guarding and fighting for; thus, worth stealing.

The next step involved the same process, but was even more secure. A given moneylender- now, essentially banks- might have locations in several cities. Merchants would act as before, but instead of shipping physical currency from city to city, the currency need only be moved from one moneylender to another WITHIN a city. Or possibly from one vault to another at the same moneylender. The notes that ordered those transfers were and are called checks. And they're DEFINITELY worth stealing.
 

I was OK at first with the whole decimal system of currency that they have in 3e, but the more we play, and the higher the characters get, the less I like it.

My biggest problem is the lack of complexity and general transparency across cultures/governments leaves the flavor pretty bland.

About 20 years ago, I felt much as you. The truth is though that adding culture in the form of diverse coinage doesn't add much value to the game compared to the trouble it creates in book keeping. RPing money changers, while very realistic, just isn't very interesting. Nor is keeping track of the dozens of sorts of coinage that a person might loot.

What was the relative rarity of the classic precious metals (copper, silver, gold, platinum), using medieval/fantasy mining methods in the Old World? What if the same culture/technology developed, but on the continent of North America? What early colonial exploration (Africa, India, Central America, China) generated booms (and presumably deflation of value) of what metals? (e.g. I know scads of gold came from looting the Aztecs).

If medieval society developed on the continent of North America, would the currency be based on silver?

Yes. There isn't enough gold in the real world to base common coinage off of gold. Historically, the ratio of silver to gold varied depending on the productivity of mining techniques and availability of ores, but Gygax's ratio of 20:1 silver to gold is in my opinion closer to the norm than 3e's simplified decimal ratios. Historically, platinum was unknown as an individual metal, but found alloyed with gold. Presumably platinum coinage is of dwarven origin, given their superior metalworking, it would make sense if they discovered and utilized it. Gygax's 5:1 ratio is less based on history, than the price of platinum relative to gold in the 1970's.

Copper is a 'base' metal rather than a precious metal, and copper coinage has very little intrinsic value. Generally speaking, the metal in a copper coin is worth less than its denominated value which means no one prefers to take payment in copper if they have choice in the matter.

I generally simplify the game by having coins have a standard weight used by all cultures, and further that all cultures currencies utilize metal that is roughly as pure as the other. Historically, that was never true, as debasement of the currency was common, but its a convenient assumption.

Discuss. Thanks.

One of the biggest problems you are going to run into is that 3e still contains traces of the 1e duel economy that has plagued the game since its inception. On the one hand, Gygax was a pretty decent amateur historian and priced most common goods fairly accurately based on a silver piece economy that is described in several places in his rules (taxes paid by serfs, wages earned by laborers). On the other hand, Gygax had a gold piece based economy that the PC's operated in and by which everything commonly used or needed was priced. Within the gold piece economy, nothing is priced according to its actual economic cost, but rather according to its assumed gamist value (as for balance purposes). Gygax justifies this duel economy in the 1e player's handbook, explaining that the default prices assume the PC's are operating in an area of hyperinflation similar to that of the Klondike during the gold rush and as such all adventuring equipment is proportionately overpriced. Unfortunately, almost no one has ever paid attention to that claim and took it seriously, and certainly not later authors of price guides. In fact, I've seen several published modules were equipment was said to cost double or even triple the prices in the Player's Handbook (think about it).

This usually produces no real problems until you try to convert between the two economies. The result gives the Player's truly enormous buying power if they choose to leverage the silver piece based labor economy, probably far exceeding the difference in buying power between first world and third world currencies. The PC's can use this fact to 'go Belloch', buying up enough labor to dig up dungeons rather than traversing them, or to by micromanaging convert labor and raw goods (priced in silver pieces) to finished goods (priced in gold pieces) and turn higher profits than they could by exploring (if the DM isn't up to full blown economic simulation).

In my own game, I solve this problem by converting all economic systems to a 'realistic' silver piece based one. Silver is as valuable in my game as gold is in most games. A few gold pieces is treated as quite significant wealth by my 7th level PC's. A simpler but equally effective solution is to convert the economy of the peasants to a gold based one and assume 1 gold piece per day is roughly the socially acceptable minimum wage. That works fine two.

In general, as a rough guide I assume that 1 s.p. = $50 of buying power. Thus, at a 20:1 ratio, 1 g.p. = $1000 of buying power. This tends to work pretty well provided you remember that mass produced goods aren't available in the society and thus all goods are priced at roughly the price you'd see for custom made hand made goods. As such, when I can't find an historical source, thinking about things in this way let's me ballpark a price for just about anything. If you convert to a g.p. based economy, then just set 1 g.p. = $50, with 1 s.p. being $5 or $2.50 depending on whether you use a 10:1 or 20:1 ratio.

You may eventually see from that why I prefer a more historical silver based economy. While you could of course assume gold and silver are of sufficient abundance in your world that they have much lower value, one problem you'll quickly run into is one I ran into way back in my early days as a DM 30 years ago - the weight of anything of significant value is enormous. D&D assumes 1 coin is roughly 1/10th of a pound, but even if you assume that a coin is 1/16th of a pound or 1/20th of a pound, you'll quickly find that to pay for anything with real value requires tons of metal. If gold is a mere $800 per pound, then buying a mansion with the stuff (say 2.4 million dollars of real property) requires 3000lbs of gold. Global economies can barely function with such a debased currency IMO. The cost and hassle of transport is just too great. Almost certainly merchants would convert to a practical paper economy out of necessity, and nations would likely need to create much more valuable coinage in platinum, mithril, and adamantium just to cover the scale of their expenditures.
 
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Yes. There isn't enough gold in the real world to base common coinage off of gold. Historically, the ratio of silver to gold varied depending on the productivity of mining techniques and availability of ores, but Gygax's ratio of 20:1 silver to gold is in my opinion closer to the norm than 3e's simplified decimal ratios. Historically, platinum was unknown as an individual metal, but found alloyed with gold. Presumably platinum coinage is of dwarven origin, given their superior metalworking, it would make sense if they discovered and utilized it. Gygax's 5:1 ratio is less based on history, than the price of platinum relative to gold in the 1970's.

Also, there are also local shortages. For example Britain switched to gold standard (after trying out copper coins for a time) simply because they ran out of silver as all silver they had flowed into China which never bought anything with it so it was stuck there.
Keep that in mind when designing game worlds, for example in werewolf infested lands silver coins might be worth more than gold coins, etc.
 

Also, there are also local shortages. For example Britain switched to gold standard (after trying out copper coins for a time) simply because they ran out of silver as all silver they had flowed into China which never bought anything with it so it was stuck there.
Keep that in mind when designing game worlds, for example in werewolf infested lands silver coins might be worth more than gold coins, etc.

I would advice persons to keep this in mind but for entirely different reasons.

Since most D&D game worlds can support global economies (and by implication have global economies, since there is a common trade language and universally accepted currency), if you introduce local differences in the values of precious metals on exchange then your players are likely to make a killing in commodity trading. One of the Forgotten Realms source books for example (my favorite whipping post) off handed throws out that gold is priced like silver and silver like gold in some of the old empires. That would have us believe there are two economies separated by a space no greater than at most the Mediterranean where in one silver is worth 1/20th of a gold and in the other gold is worth 1/20th of a silver. This same world is peopled by an abundance of 20th level characters, many of whom can teleport.

The first time we read that as players, our jaws dropped..... "You mean I can take 1 gold piece, convert it to 20 silver pieces on one end of the Sea of Fallen Stars, take those 20 s.p. and convert it to 400 g.p. on the other end, and then repeat this process? Well, let's see, we've got 30,000 g.p...... we can convert that to 60 tons of silver, then take those 60 tons of silver to Mulhulrand, and there trade it for 1200 tons of gold. Let's start tomorrow." Trade imbalances like that, as you can see, would be quickly corrected.

And really, that isn't even the only example of just how ridiculously stupid the coinage systems of Faerun actually are. Waterdeep's currency is just as bad.

UPDATE: GREAT HOLEY GOLDEN COINS BATMAN is this ever a thread necro.
 
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I would advice persons to keep this in mind but for entirely different reasons.

Since most D&D game worlds can support global economies (and by implication have global economies, since there is a common trade language and universally accepted currency), if you introduce local differences in the values of precious metals on exchange then your players are likely to make a killing in commodity trading. One of the Forgotten Realms source books for example (my favorite whipping post) off handed throws out that gold is priced like silver and silver like gold in some of the old empires. That would have us believe there are two economies separated by a space no greater than at most the Mediterranean where in one silver is worth 1/20th of a gold and in the other gold is worth 1/20th of a silver. This same world is peopled by an abundance of 20th level characters, many of whom can teleport.

The first time we read that as players, our jaws dropped..... "You mean I can take 1 gold piece, convert it to 20 silver pieces on one end of the Sea of Fallen Stars, take those 20 s.p. and convert it to 400 g.p. on the other end, and then repeat this process? Well, let's see, we've got 30,000 g.p...... we can convert that to 60 tons of silver, then take those 60 tons of silver to Mulhulrand, and there trade it for 1200 tons of gold. Let's start tomorrow." Trade imbalances like that, as you can see, would be quickly corrected.

And really, that isn't even the only example of just how ridiculously stupid the coinage systems of Faerun actually are. Waterdeep's currency is just as bad.

UPDATE: GREAT HOLEY GOLDEN COINS BATMAN is this ever a thread necro.

Just to underline how significant that is, another real world example.
When Japan was forced to open trade with the rest of the world it had a 1:5 exchange rate between gold and silver while the international exchange rate was 1:15. So people brought in silver from across the world to japan and exchanged it there for gold which they took with them. In a single year about 70 tons of gold left the country which caused their gold based currency to collapse.
 

I hadn't noticed this thread until I just posted one fairly similar.

I've found that it isn't too complex when you continue to operate in fairly straight forward multiples of 5, 10 or 20. Truely exotic coins can be different, but then it just makes more sense to treat them like treasure, gems or jewelry anyhow.

For example in my campaign using the Dwimmermount megadungeon there are 3 'tiers' of coins. The current coins manufactured by the city states are the standard book coins. They are heavily debased of their precious metal content though, containing only about 10% precious metal.

The tier above that is the Termaxian coins. They have about 50% precious metal content and are typically traded in to a moneylender to be melted down and restruck. The Termaxian empire has a bit of a bad reputation on account of some of the nasty stuff they did while in power, so the coins themselves aren't seen as very valuable apart from their metal. One Termaxian GP can be exchanged for 4-5 City State GP depending on the quantity being exchanged and condition of the coins. Merchants will accept them, but oftentimes for a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio so it's best to trade them in.

The top tier of 'normal' coins are the Thulian coins. They are key in that they are not debased. They are also highly sought after by nobles and wealthy merchants for large transactions so this inflates their value further. The Thulian Empire is seen as a sort of "golden age" and important people try to associate themselves with it as much as possible, including using their coins amongst themselves. This creates a bit of an interesting dynamic where players can trade them in for City State coins at between a 1:10 and 1:20 ratio, but if they are dealing with the higher echelon of society then it is almost expected that they use the Thulian coins... This gets a bit more complex, but really it only matters if the players are burning money for something ostentatious or exotic. For example, a fighter could go buy plate armour for 600 GP. However if he goes to the city arsenal and commissions its finest craftsman to make a suit of parade armour then whatever price was negotiated would likely be in Thulian coins. The craftsman might even refuse to accept the City State coins simply because anyone who can afford the best is expected to pay with the best.

Beyond that I also have coins made of Areonite, Starmetal, Moonsilver, and Adamant struck by the Eldrich Empire which existed prior to the Thulians and are even more valuable, but only really used as a medium of exchange between sorcerers, alchemists, and extreme eccentrics. Basically the only reason they exist is to serve as the only way for players to ever be able to purchase a magic item.
 
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Replying to myself here but my thoughts went off on a bit of a different track.

Say you want to create a system where you have multiple currencies with multiple values. It honestly isn't that hard when you drill right down to it since ultimately the key component of any precious metal based currency is the weight of the precious metal in the currency.

Step one in complexifying your coinage is to just figure out what your currency is based on. This honestly doesn't matter in the slightest just as long as you have an idea in your head of what type of shiny metal your players will most commonly get their hands on and how many bits of that shiny metal can be exchanged for a sharp object out of the PHB. I'd honestly suggest just keeping the PHB prices pretty much as is and just reskinning the coins themselves. If you really feel like going down that rabbit hole of rebuilding the D&D economy then check out Grain into Gold for a wonderful lesson on injecting feudal economics into an RPG.

After that you decide on how much precious metal is in your coins. In D&D 10 gold coins which we can at this point assume are pure gold since nothing has said otherwise weigh one pound. This is silly, the Florin which was the most widely used gold coin in the middle ages weighed 6.5 grams. That's the weight of 2 or 3 american pennies depending on when they were minted or about 70 florins to a pound. Again though you can have your coins weigh whatever you want since it only really effects how much PC's can physically haul around and how much actual gold you want floating around the world. Personally I set my base weight at 100 to a pound just to keep the numbers logical.

Now that you've figured out how much precious metal there is in your coins you can start modifying it. One thing I did once in a game that used a silver piece standard (where the PHB prices were pretty much just changed from GP to SP) was create a coin called "The Shield". It was a large silver coin worth 5 silver pieces and represented the weekly wage for a soldier. It could be broken into fifths and used like regular silver pieces but it added a bit of character to the game, especially since it was a military focused campaign where the PC's spent a lot of time working as mercenaries, and hiring other mercenaries to work for them.

In my Dwimmermount game I did a similar thing with the era's of the coins where the purity of the coin reflects the economic power of the government. The City State of Adamas is comparably weak, and its coins are extremely debased making them worth much less than the pure Thulian gold pieces which translate most directly into Platinum. Really though the possibilities are endless. Maybe the Elves of your world only trade in silver, but their coins are so pure that a single silver coin of theirs is equal to a human gold piece. Maybe the dwarves use tiny platinum coins that are small enough that a single dwarven platinum is equivalent in value to a human GP. Heck, maybe you could go total viking and have currency based straight up on weight. Precious metal is kept in armbands, rings and torcs, to buy something you hand over a piece of jewelry and the merchant literally hacks it apart to give you change.
 

The correct answer is that platinum, gold, silver, and copper are vastly overvalued in the typical DnD-esque world.

The reason is that the real-world rarity values simply do not apply; they have a potentially-endless source of coinage thanks to the elemental plane of Earth. Which means that the typical DnD coin value ratio is likely maintained by outsiders.

Now there's an adventure seed for your group to investigate :D
 

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