D&D 5E Reliable Talent and Disadvantage - order of precedence?

[Quartz]

I'm having a momentary brain fade here. Is Disadvantage applied before or after Reliable Talent? That is, if you have Reliable Talent and roll with Disadvantage you roll both skill and Disadvantage dice and have an absolute minimum of 10? Or do you roll your skill die, take a minimum of 10, then roll the Disadvantage die and take the lesser result?

In mathematical terms is it

MAX (MIN (d20,d20),10))

or

MIN (MAX (d20,10), d20)

 

[DND_Reborn]

Feel free to review this thread I started:

D&D 5E - (Un)-Reliable Talent? How do you do it?

UPDATE: after having time to run the numbers today, I'm "ok" overall with RT working with both dice for advantage and disadvantage. What happens is RT tightens the effects of advantage and disadvantage. In other words, advantage won't help you as much as it might help another PC, but in the same...

www.enworld.org

In your mathematical terms most people play it MAX (MIN (d20,d20),10)).

 

[Hriston]

Disadvantage is applied before. If one of your proficiencies applies to the check, then the minimum result of each die is 10.

 

[Quartz]

Thanks.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm having a momentary brain fade here. Is Disadvantage applied before or after Reliable Talent? That is, if you have Reliable Talent and roll with Disadvantage you roll both skill and Disadvantage dice and have an absolute minimum of 10? Or do you roll your skill die, take a minimum of 10, then roll the Disadvantage die and take the lesser result?

In mathematical terms is it

MAX (MIN (d20,d20),10))

or

MIN (MAX (d20,10), d20)

Neither.

You roll both d20 and you choose one of them to become 10 if lower.

 

[Mort]

Neither.

You roll both d20 and you choose one of them to become 10 if lower.

Are you saying that you get to apply reliable talent to only one of the rolls? So if you roll a 6 and a 4 you can change the 4 but must keep the 6 (now the lower of the two)?

Because that's certainly NOT the way I read "Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10."

Seems clear that both the 6 AND 4 are d20 rolls, so both are treated as a 10.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I don't use order of operations, rather I use the solution for which all conditions are true.

Let's say a Rogue-11 has disadvantage on stealth due to exhaustion. They need to sneak past a Goblin guard. They roll stealth at disadvantage (3 and 15). That 3 then triggers Reliable Talent, replacing it with a 10.

 

[jgsugden]

Are you saying that you only get to apply reliable talent to only one of the rolls? So if you roll a 6 and a 4 you can change the 4 but must keep the 6 (now the lower of the two)?

Because that's certainly NOT the way I read "Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10."

Seems clear that both the 6 AND 4 are d20 rolls, so both are treated as a 10.

You can treat one single d20 roll as a 10 as part of an ability check. This impacts one die in disadvantage (or advantage).

The advantage and disadvantage rules are clear that you're rolling two dice as part of the same check.

Sometimes a special ability or spell tells you that you have advantage or disadvantage on an ability check, a saving throw, or an attack roll. When that happens, you roll a second d20 when you make the roll.

Thus, under RAW, if you roll a 4 and a 6, you can make the 4 a 10, but must still use the 6.

 

[Mort]

You can treat one single d20 roll as a 10 as part of an ability check. This impacts one die in disadvantage (or advantage).

The advantage and disadvantage rules are clear that you're rolling two dice as part of the same check.

Thus, under RAW, if you roll a 4 and a 6, you can make the 4 a 10, but must still use the 6.

That's a very narrow interpretation of "a d20. " It doesn't say a singe d20 it says "a" d20. As both rolls are still a d20 skill check, seems to be both are affected.

This isn't reroll a die like lucky or halfling luck which explicitly allowes the reroll of one die - it just bumps up any d20 of lower then 10 to 10.

Or an even easier way to look at it. Disadvantage applies to the roll, you roll a 6 and a 4 and must take the lower of the two: the 4 is your "roll" per disadvantage. But the roll is lower than 10 - your roll is a 10 per reliable talent.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

RELIABLE T ALENT
By 11th levei, you have refined your chosen skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

No, I have to interpret that last clause as talking in general. It applies to however many d20 rolls you have to make as part of that ability check.

For a specific interpretation, I would require it to say "you can treat one d20 roll of..."

Furthermore, the idea of repeating the operation to check if there are now lower d20 roll results, tells me I'm digging a hole.