Relics and Rituals/Convert Question
- Thread starter reiella
- Start date
Magus_Jerel
First Post
Could you post the text of the spell so I can know what you are looking at here?
Is this thing 3e or 2e?
Is this thing 3e or 2e?
reiella
Explorer
3rd edition, relics and rituals (Swords and Sorcery book/scarred lands).
Bit abbridged because it's sorta a long entry.
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting], Level:Clr 9. Components: V, DF, Target: One creature, Duration : Permanent, Saving Throw: Will negates, Spell Resistance: Yes
A cleric may attempt to forcibly convert that person to the cleric's own religion. A will save negates the attempt, but the subject will be a little less resistant to such attempts in the future, cumulative -1 penalty to will save for each successfull save against this spell when cast by the same spellcaster (max -8). Same bonuses may be applied to a creature's will check, +4 For Good-> Evil God or vice verse, +2 for Neutral -> Good or Evil (but not vice verse), +4 for Law->Chaos (and vice verse), +2 for Neutral -> Law or Chaos (but not vice verse). Also, add their caster level for any divine spells to their save.
An additional -4 penalty is possible if the cleric is able to cast it subtly (requires 10 minutes of conversation)...
Successful casting doesn't change the alignment of the target, but each week after being converted, they shift one step closer to their new god's alignment.
Successful conversion implies the target will be well disposed to the cleric for 'showing them the light'. They can also continue to cast divine spells (and clerics can choose new domains as appropiate). Some classes, may loose their divine spells as a result of the alignment change (Paladin)...
Atonement may reverse the effects of convert, however atonement requires a truly repentant subject and those affect by convert are normally sincerely disposed to their new god. Usually requires a convert attempt by a cleric of the target's former god (does not recieve the alignment modifier or divine caster level bonus to saves in those cases).
Big bit of situational consideration (and also prolly bit powerful for a spell at 9th) is what makes me believe this is supposed to be an instaneous effect as opposed to a permanent effect (why bother with converting or atoning again if you can just dispel it?).
Bit abbridged because it's sorta a long entry.
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting], Level:Clr 9. Components: V, DF, Target: One creature, Duration : Permanent, Saving Throw: Will negates, Spell Resistance: Yes
A cleric may attempt to forcibly convert that person to the cleric's own religion. A will save negates the attempt, but the subject will be a little less resistant to such attempts in the future, cumulative -1 penalty to will save for each successfull save against this spell when cast by the same spellcaster (max -8). Same bonuses may be applied to a creature's will check, +4 For Good-> Evil God or vice verse, +2 for Neutral -> Good or Evil (but not vice verse), +4 for Law->Chaos (and vice verse), +2 for Neutral -> Law or Chaos (but not vice verse). Also, add their caster level for any divine spells to their save.
An additional -4 penalty is possible if the cleric is able to cast it subtly (requires 10 minutes of conversation)...
Successful casting doesn't change the alignment of the target, but each week after being converted, they shift one step closer to their new god's alignment.
Successful conversion implies the target will be well disposed to the cleric for 'showing them the light'. They can also continue to cast divine spells (and clerics can choose new domains as appropiate). Some classes, may loose their divine spells as a result of the alignment change (Paladin)...
Atonement may reverse the effects of convert, however atonement requires a truly repentant subject and those affect by convert are normally sincerely disposed to their new god. Usually requires a convert attempt by a cleric of the target's former god (does not recieve the alignment modifier or divine caster level bonus to saves in those cases).
Big bit of situational consideration (and also prolly bit powerful for a spell at 9th) is what makes me believe this is supposed to be an instaneous effect as opposed to a permanent effect (why bother with converting or atoning again if you can just dispel it?).
Magus_Jerel
First Post
yeah - it SHOULD be instantaneous - if you allowed the use of this thing.
The spell is a wee bit unbalancing - even at 9th level.
Subtly casting this thing on a paladin = DC 19 + modifier or be turned into a blackguard...
or converting a blackguard to a paladin?
I just see WAY too many problems with adjucation.
The spell is a wee bit unbalancing - even at 9th level.
Subtly casting this thing on a paladin = DC 19 + modifier or be turned into a blackguard...
or converting a blackguard to a paladin?
I just see WAY too many problems with adjucation.
reiella
Explorer
Well afaik, it doesn't force them to take up any levels, just changes their allignment a few weeks later (so they could be an underpowered paladin or whatnot I suppose). And yes, the spell is a bit ... powerful I agree (either way), just something I noticed and had to wonder about if I was just missing some other difference between Instaneous and Permanent duration spells (no dispel, no detect pretty much right?).
Magus_Jerel
First Post
Well afaik, it doesn't force them to take up any levels, just changes their allignment...
And yet they will view this change in the most positive light? If they have the feats - they are GONE ...
You might also want to take a look at Feeblemind - as written.
The effects are "similar" in nature.
If this thing is intended to be "un-dispellable" then it should be considered instantaneous - not permanent.
This is paradoxical. What happens to the character if this spell is "dispelled" after one month? This is a case of someone trying to write a "forced alignment change" that occurs over an extended period of time. I find it VERY unbalancing. Again - instantaneous or permanent - this is beyond the scope of magic to do - period.
I don't even want to think what would happen if someone managed to get this thing to work on a celestial, demon, or devil - TOO much of a headache. In My view - this thing deserves the boot from any given campaign.
And yet they will view this change in the most positive light? If they have the feats - they are GONE ...
You might also want to take a look at Feeblemind - as written.
The effects are "similar" in nature.
If this thing is intended to be "un-dispellable" then it should be considered instantaneous - not permanent.
This is paradoxical. What happens to the character if this spell is "dispelled" after one month? This is a case of someone trying to write a "forced alignment change" that occurs over an extended period of time. I find it VERY unbalancing. Again - instantaneous or permanent - this is beyond the scope of magic to do - period.
I don't even want to think what would happen if someone managed to get this thing to work on a celestial, demon, or devil - TOO much of a headache. In My view - this thing deserves the boot from any given campaign.
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