Religion/Faith Supplement?

[tbug]

When gods are real it seems like there should be something more than just classes that get power from them. I want a supplement that gives a mechanic for faith and/or devotion. Does anything like that exist for 3.x/PFRPG?

I'm picturing the party going into a super-dangerous situation, so before they start the cleric gets out the portable shrine and people make sacrifices and do a half-hour devotional/worship session, or something. I'm not looking for the players to have to do any of this; I just think that there should be some sort of in-game reward for the characters doing it. I can always just add hero points or something, but if there exists a supplement to support this then I'm interested in hearing about it.

 

[gamerprinter]

When gods are real it seems like there should be something more than just classes that get power from them. I want a supplement that gives a mechanic for faith and/or devotion. Does anything like that exist for 3.x/PFRPG?

I'm picturing the party going into a super-dangerous situation, so before they start the cleric gets out the portable shrine and people make sacrifices and do a half-hour devotional/worship session, or something. I'm not looking for the players to have to do any of this; I just think that there should be some sort of in-game reward for the characters doing it. I can always just add hero points or something, but if there exists a supplement to support this then I'm interested in hearing about it.

Well considering that most gamers treat religion fairly lightly, usually a source for healing magic and that's about it, paladins and their source of power for Smite, Lay on Hands, etc. Most temples/cathedrals that are mapped become encounter locations. Almost never, in my experience is religion treated more officially than that. I'd say this is probably true for most fantasy gamers.

It sounds like your campaign needs something specific for use of religion. I don't think this is something that needs to be defined by Paizo, as again, most gamers don't have the needs for what you're looking for - so it wouldn't really be profitable for Paizo to create something like that.

But within the limits of the situation you describe above, I agree giving some amount of Hero points for extended prayer and sacrifice seems an appropriate boon - which as I say, is something you need to define, but I agree it makes sense.

As an aside, our players really abused the Action points during 3x, and we don't allow the use of Hero points in our PF games. So if I did what you're asking in our game, we'd need something other than Hero points to grant as a boon. Our PCs don't even worship the same gods most of the time, so what the cleric in our party wishes has little relevance to the rest of the party.

Just don't expect something official, as I don't think most need that in their game.

 

[Bacris]

I'd be interested in knowing if a product like this does exist... It seems definitely campaign-specific, rather than something generic - since you need a cosmology / pantheon that works with the concept, but I think something that grants benefits - or detriments - based upon interaction with deities would be pretty cool

 

[tbug]

Thanks for the feedback, Michael! I agree that this isn't really Paizo's thing, but I thought that maybe some smaller publisher might have tackled the issue for 3.x or Pathfinder.

I've also had groups abuse the action points, but I think that the PFRPG hero point system fixes most of my problems, particularly since there's a hard cap of only ever having three at a time.

I guess having along a cleric of a different god from the one you worship shouldn't cause any problems, but having a cleric of your faith along should, I feel, give some vague bonus. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this; it's more pondering what (if anything) has been done along these lines.

 

[gamerprinter]

I'd fear giving players Hero points for praying to their gods as a means to ready themselves for some major encounter would get abused - just as another source of Hero points.

If you keep the cap at 3 Hero Points, then any player with less than 3 Hero points, could gain a number of Hero points up to the 3 max level that is normally accrued at leveling up.

To minimize the abuse, I might add that the group can perform this kind of religious prayer and sacrifice once per level, so as not to have a constant source of Hero Point acquisition.

However, I would also keep track of PCs actions that could be deduced as being a negative effect to the will of their gods. Those PCs that were less than stellar adherents to a given god, should be prevented from gaining a boon from such prayer. It would require some level of honoring their gods throughout consistent play, for some deity boon to be providing a boon to them at all.

It looks like too much record keeping to maintain that though.

That would be my suggestion.

 

[Lwaxy]

I usually have the players flash out their religions, which mostly comes into play when there is a cleric or paladin or oracle in the group. The other PCs sometimes join in.

I'd love some more flavor here with the Golarion gods, too.

 

[tbug]

Hero Points in PFRPG are really strong, and probably too big a reward for something that people can do all the time. Otherwise, why isn't everybody doing this all the time? I don't want to radically change the flavour of the game world, just give a small benefit and add some flavour. Developing a religious sensibility might end up being a central theme of the campaign I'm about to launch, and I want to look like I know what I'm doing before everyone gathers for character creation.

Someone recommended the 3.0 book The Divine and the Defeated, and it looks like it has a simple and elegant system that I'll be adopting. I have another week or so to decide though, so if there's some 3rd party supplement languishing out there that does what I need then I'd be delighted to buy a copy on rpgnow (or wherever) and evaluate it.

 

[gamerprinter]

Hero Points in PFRPG are really strong, and probably too big a reward for something that people can do all the time. Otherwise, why isn't everybody doing this all the time?

This is why I suggested the benefit of gaining extra Hero Points for rituals to your deity, as something that could only be allowed once per level. Once they do it, they have to wait until next level up to try again. No abuse possible this way.

 

[tbug]

This is why I suggested the benefit of gaining extra Hero Points for rituals to your deity, as something that could only be allowed once per level. Once they do it, they have to wait until next level up to try again. No abuse possible this way.

I think that's balanced, and it could work. I think, though, that I'd rather have something weaker that they could do more often (possibly in addition to your suggestion, rather than instead of it). This is a flavour issue, not a complaint about your suggestion; I'm looking for something that rewards devotion and a state of constant worship, given that this is a world where the gods are real and demonstrably willing to grant boons to their followers (eg clerical spells and abilities).

Sorry if I seemed unappreciative. I think your initial post was well reasoned and balanced.

 

[gamerprinter]

Really, any kind of bonus, no matter how small, if allowed to be used everyday, and is not a built in ability of an existing class - is probably too powerful. Hero points allowing you to avoid an instant death, or reroll something once and the point is spent is pretty small benefit, compared to say a +1 to hit every day. So I can't imagine what 'small benefit' you could provide all the time, that was weaker than a Hero point...

I'd put it this way to your players. It's going to take constant work with your deity to even get non-leveling hero points to do it once per level. I mean if your player only once per level honors his god, just to benefit with bonus Hero Points - he won't get any bonus points. It's going to take constant attention to your religious practice to even get the opportunity of once per level bonus Hero Points.