D&D 5E Remaking the Cleric into a Domain Priest

[kerleth]

Prepare for Thread Drift!

Kind of a thread drift, but the druid/cleric debate is one of the reasons why I prefer charisma for clerics. Look at the iconic skills for wisdom and the iconic skills for charisma. I can see an iconic cleric intimidating with the threat of his deity's wrath, or fibbing to comfort a grieving mother a lot easier than I can see them aceing spot, listen, and survival. The druid, though, makes perfect sense with those skills. With DnDnext's "ability checks with bonuses" system, those things get a spot light shone on them real quick. If you have a cleric be by default charisma and the druid wisdom, it makes one more defining feature that sets them apart. Of course, by weight of tradition and nostalgia we'll get wisdom clerics, and that's okay. I'm just saying.
END THREAD DRIFT

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

[MENTION=6701861]Timmoth[/MENTION].. its not about the power source, but how the character manifests that power. Much as [MENTION=84383]kerleth[/MENTION] posted.

One aspect is the question of what the character protects and how. A cleric nurtures a group of believers and shepherds communities to live in balance with nature, taming nature.
A druid works with other druids keeping nature wild and defending it with force as needed.

Another aspect is what skills the character uses. A clerics communing with nature is a more cerebral thing whilst a druid communes on a primal level. A cleric faced by a raging boar has little options but to fight or flee. A Druid can connect to the raging boar and redirect or calm down. {or fight, or flee}

There are other delineations, but these are IMO the key characteristics.

 

[Timmoth]

[MENTION=6701861]Timmoth[/MENTION].. its not about the power source, but how the character manifests that power. Much as [MENTION=84383]kerleth[/MENTION] posted.

One aspect is the question of what the character protects and how. A cleric nurtures a group of believers and shepherds communities to live in balance with nature, taming nature.
A druid works with other druids keeping nature wild and defending it with force as needed.

Another aspect is what skills the character uses. A clerics communing with nature is a more cerebral thing whilst a druid communes on a primal level. A cleric faced by a raging boar has little options but to fight or flee. A Druid can connect to the raging boar and redirect or calm down. {or fight, or flee}

There are other delineations, but these are IMO the key characteristics.

Late reply man I been on the other side of the world.
What you are saying is true enough. My main focus is to not slight the difference in the same way the Mauser 98 and the M1 Garand are presented in Call of Duty. In a way its more difficult to balance the similar. Both Silvanus and Mielikki have Druidic and Cleric followers so I may make that seperation.

An example of a Priest of Tymora

Armor Proficiency Light and Medium
Ability Modifier Dex and Charisma
Favored Weapon- Shuriken
Main Domain- Luck
Domains- Adventure, Change,
Minor Domains- Glory and Nobility

Atwill
Adventure
Compass


Luck
Luck
advantage to all death rolls
advantage to one card or dice roll in gambling
Change
Comfort. Bless effect to anyone who has lost a loved one
Tymora's Blessing. Change eye color

Encounter
Adventure
Cat's Grace


Luck
Entropic Shield
Live- stabilized at -10 hp.

Change
Ruse- switches from being at disadvantage to advantage



Daily
Adventure
Trackless
Vine to Rope
Stone to Bread

Luck
Lucky Dagger
Stars of Tymora- three shriekens per day used with advantage


Change

Tymora's Will- random effects on enemy similar to color spray

2nd.Utility slot based
Adventure
Tymora's Tumble-at half or less hp has advantage vs AoO and while Tumbling.
Blessed Bandage- takes three rounds if done in combat. Needs real banadage
Create Water

Luck
Tymora's Blessing -gets one reroll.

Change
Protection from Environment
Reduce -adds bonus to stealth
Enlarge

Glory
Bolstering Strike
Raise the Fallen 1 hp to all fallen

Nobility
Deface- coin appears as Tymora
Eagle Splendor

2nd Encounter
Change
Bleed Not- Healed enough to not be in bloodied state

 

[Howndawg]

Kind of a thread drift, but the druid/cleric debate is one of the reasons why I prefer charisma for clerics. Look at the iconic skills for wisdom and the iconic skills for charisma. I can see an iconic cleric intimidating with the threat of his deity's wrath, or fibbing to comfort a grieving mother a lot easier than I can see them aceing spot, listen, and survival. The druid, though, makes perfect sense with those skills. With DnDnext's "ability checks with bonuses" system, those things get a spot light shone on them real quick. If you have a cleric be by default charisma and the druid wisdom, it makes one more defining feature that sets them apart. Of course, by weight of tradition and nostalgia we'll get wisdom clerics, and that's okay. I'm just saying.
END THREAD DRIFT

You could also argue that intelligence should be the key stat for clerics since many knowledge skills are iconic for clerics. Since a cleric gets his power from prayer and meditation, wisdom makes much more sense.

 

[kerleth]

You could also argue that intelligence should be the key stat for clerics since many knowledge skills are iconic for clerics. Since a cleric gets his power from prayer and meditation, wisdom makes much more sense.

Actually, I don't think that there is nearly as solid of an argument for intelligence as charisma. Looking at fantasy fiction (dragonlance, which is intimately tied with DnD, as an example) there aren't nearly as many sage type clerics as their are wise or charismatic ones. Ironically, however, I would see less issues with all clerics being smart (knowledge skills, disable device assuming there isn't some sort of trained only rule) than wise (spot, listen, survival, so all clerics are wilderness experts). The more I think about it, the more I think wisdom may actually be the worst of the 3 "soul scores" for a cleric. (Though I know many will want to use wisdom because it is what they are comfortable with and have nostalgia for, and that is 100% okay).

Let's boil down what a cleric is. Someone who has magical powers gained through service to a deity (or possibly a cause in some settings). These powers may be granted as gifts from the diety, or powered by the faith of the user. In fiction it is often the case that when a cleric has a crisis of faith their powers suffer. Self-confidence, determination, the ability to remain true to yourself and your ideals (such as religious beliefs) all match up pretty closely with Next's definition of charisma. It could even be argued that clerics have good charisma because anyone wielding the power of their deity is going to be granted an intimidating/inspiring presence and great force of will.

Also, cleric's iconically serve as sheperd's to a flock of worshippers, or as the person in a party that, while perhaps not a leader, keeps everyone from giving up and/or killing each other. As far as evil or, perhaps I should say, clerics with "extreme personallity flaws", the fanatic is very common. Charisma, especially with next using it some in saving throws against fear and controlling effects, seems the best fit for this.

Now, I don't want to pidgeonhole anyone into a certain role. When I DM I would be perfectly okay with a character using a score of their choice as long as it made sense for the character and the setting. I'm simply stating that if we are going to choose a default score, then that score should be the one that most closely represents the iconic fiction. What I want to minimize are incongruous elements, like almost all clerics (including city slickers, militant fanatics, and bookish sages) being skilled in surviving in the wild, spotting an ambush, and eavesdropping through a doorway. That said, I know cleric is going to be wisdom, and I just hope that when 5E comes out and I true to get a new regular group together (I just play sporadically now), I can find people who's playstyle (some small tweaking is okay if it's for a good reason and thought through) matches mine.

 

[GhostBear]

It may be worthwhile to read the AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook. The section about cleric mentions and encourages domain clerics, and uses the Druid as an example - not as a separate class per se, but as a cleric of the nature domain.

 

[ren1999]

Kind of a thread drift, but the druid/cleric debate is one of the reasons why I prefer charisma for clerics. Look at the iconic skills for wisdom and the iconic skills for charisma. I can see an iconic cleric intimidating with the threat of his deity's wrath, or fibbing to comfort a grieving mother a lot easier than I can see them aceing spot, listen, and survival. The druid, though, makes perfect sense with those skills. With DnDnext's "ability checks with bonuses" system, those things get a spot light shone on them real quick. If you have a cleric be by default charisma and the druid wisdom, it makes one more defining feature that sets them apart. Of course, by weight of tradition and nostalgia we'll get wisdom clerics, and that's okay. I'm just saying.
END THREAD DRIFT

We agree on this one.

My 5th Edition Play-Test Tracker
http://kira3696.tripod.com

 

[kerleth]

We agree on this one.

My 5th Edition Play-Test Tracker
http://kira3696.tripod.comhttp://kira3696.tripod.com

I think that may be a first .