Remnants of the Horde:Back to Myrach...

Velenne said:
Incidently, this is definately my favorite PbP on the boards right now. All the intrigue and back-story is very well thought out. Who would have thought it could last this long!? Kudos Uriel! Here's to the best of luck to our intrepid villains!

Well, thanks. I improvisemost of what I throw together as I do it, it's pretty much as I've been DMing in my RL games for years as well.
I figured that this one would last awhile (hoped, as the secondary story, regarding what Durgo carries) will make for an interesting time.
Hmm...don't take away your cleric. Well, Kurg isn't exactly an altruistic sort, though I did like him when he was a PC, very 'proper' for a Gnoll, self-serving and sneaky.

Maybe doghead would make a Hobgoblin Cleric or Cleric/whatever...?

That would fit in and I could drop Kurg at some point...

Doghead, your thoughts?
 

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It was the opening post of RotH:V&B. I read it and loved it. And there were all those hobgoblin and ogre npcs lying around ... I'm not really fussed much about levels, a lower level grunt would suit me fine. Anyway, thats where I was coming from.

I had a quick look at UaVS:YR (hope you don't mind the shorthand). I havn't read much but it seems to have a lot of the same qualities. I'm probably better off in a lower level game, as I havn't played much D&D since AD&D.

OK, so the options are:
12 levels of something with Cleric (for the healing I presume) in RotH, or
7 levels of something with rogue in UaVS:YR.

Hobgoblins always welcome. Is that right?
 

Just a question regarding my worg. It was nice enough for you to allow me to have one, but upon hearing your generousity to one of the other character with the winter wolf, I was wondering if you would allow my Growlith to be an Elite (base ability scores 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 instead of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10 ,10) CR5 worg ? He would be ALOT tougher, and may even survive a fight or two before dying.

Here's what he would look like:

WORG


Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 13d10+52 (134 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (+4 Dex, +4 natural, -1 size), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+26
Attack: Bite +22 melee (1d8+10)
Full Attack: Bite +22/+17/+12 melee (1d8+10)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +7
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
Skills: Hide +18, Listen +7, Move Silently +21, Spot +7, Survival +3*
Feats: Alertness, Track, Power Attack, Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Bite)
Challenge Rating: 5

A typical worg has gray or black fur, grows to 5 feet long and stands 3 feet tall at the shoulder. It weighs 300 pounds.

More intelligent than their smaller cousins, worgs speak their own language. Some can also speak Common and Goblin.

COMBAT
Mated pairs or packs work together to bring down large game, while lone worgs usually chase down creatures smaller than themselves. Both often use hit-and-run tactics to exhaust their quarry. A pack usually circles a larger opponent: Each wolf attacks in turn, biting and retreating, until the creature is exhausted, at which point the pack moves in for the kill. If they get impatient or heavily outnumber the opponent, worgs attempt to pin it.

Trip (Ex): A worg that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+3 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the worg.

Skills: A worg has a +1 racial bonus on Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks, and a +2 racial bonus on Hide checks.

*A worg has a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.

Now there's an animal!
 
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doghead said:
It was the opening post of RotH:V&B. I read it and loved it. And there were all those hobgoblin and ogre npcs lying around ... I'm not really fussed much about levels, a lower level grunt would suit me fine. Anyway, thats where I was coming from.

I had a quick look at UaVS:YR (hope you don't mind the shorthand). I havn't read much but it seems to have a lot of the same qualities. I'm probably better off in a lower level game, as I havn't played much D&D since AD&D.

OK, so the options are:
12 levels of something with Cleric (for the healing I presume) in RotH, or
7 levels of something with rogue in UaVS:YR.

Hobgoblins always welcome. Is that right?

The Remnants of the Horde game is ECL 11, not 12, but yes.
You know, a Cleric or a Cleric fighter/templar.whatever would be great.
Hobgoblins with War as a Domain would make nasty fighter/cleric types.
I could add you in with Vespazian and Blaught as the keep's Chirgeon.
Easy enough...
Hobgoblins are very welcome, although they are a +1ECL.
Compiled Hob stats:

+2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Fort Save, +4 to Move Silently.

A presitge class from Book of Vile darkness or pretty much any source is Ok, provided I can get a look at it.

As far as the Cleric thing. I have sort of House ruled that you can convert to Cure Spells if the recipients are either of your faith or working towards the Goals of your God, regardless of Alignment. So, you could heal your mates without having to waste all of your slots on Cure.

The UaVS game doesn't really need a rogue as much as this one needs a proper Cleric, for the Healing, but also for the Unholy abilities. It may be Devils and hags that they are fighting right now, but Avorals, Devas and Archons aren't too far off, as the Good Guys are marching on Myrach, and the D20 Miniatures book is out, though I can't get it until next week.


MMm...Hordes of Devils and Angels going at it..finally something to use my several thousand minis with...
 

Mithreander said:
Just a question regarding my worg. It was nice enough for you to allow me to have one, but upon hearing your generousity to one of the other character with the winter wolf, I was wondering if you would allow my Growlith to be an Elite (base ability scores 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 instead of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10 ,10) CR5 worg ? He would be ALOT tougher, and may even survive a fight or two before dying.

Here's what he would look like:

WORG


Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 13d10+52 (134 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (+4 Dex, +4 natural, -1 size), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+26
Attack: Bite +22 melee (1d8+10)
Full Attack: Bite +22/+17/+12 melee (1d8+10)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +7
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
Skills: Hide +18, Listen +7, Move Silently +21, Spot +7, Survival +3*
Feats: Alertness, Track, Power Attack, Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Bite)
Challenge Rating: 5

A typical worg has gray or black fur, grows to 5 feet long and stands 3 feet tall at the shoulder. It weighs 300 pounds.

More intelligent than their smaller cousins, worgs speak their own language. Some can also speak Common and Goblin.

COMBAT
Mated pairs or packs work together to bring down large game, while lone worgs usually chase down creatures smaller than themselves. Both often use hit-and-run tactics to exhaust their quarry. A pack usually circles a larger opponent: Each wolf attacks in turn, biting and retreating, until the creature is exhausted, at which point the pack moves in for the kill. If they get impatient or heavily outnumber the opponent, worgs attempt to pin it.

Trip (Ex): A worg that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+3 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the worg.

Skills: A worg has a +1 racial bonus on Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks, and a +2 racial bonus on Hide checks.

*A worg has a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.

Now there's an animal!


Where did these stas come from exactly!?!?!

13 HD and a +22 attack are many magnitudes removed from the standard Worg...

I don't mind letting him have better stats, the 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 is fine, but I fail to see where the other rather severe bonus come from...CR 5, that's funny Mithreander :D

Show me where the math comes from. I have no problem with giving you a better steed (a Winter Wolf even), and I believe I let Wekerak buy one, BTW.
4000 GP or something like that.

I have no problem helping your steed survive, but I would appreciate if you pointed me to the 'Elite' rules in question.

-Thanks, Ron...er, I mean 'Uriel'.
 


OK. A cleric cocktail for RotH. ECL 11. Healing and other cleric stuff.

I'm going to be gone from the 26th to the 2nd and my internet access will be limited. If thats all bad, I understand. Otherwise I'm in.

*crosses fingers again 'cos it worked last time*

Would you prefer to "pre-gen" the character? I'll get started on one anyway, but am easy either way.

Do you want this done by Email or posted to the boards?
 

Ron...er said:
Where did these stas come from exactly!?!?!

13 HD and a +22 attack are many magnitudes removed from the standard Worg...

I don't mind letting him have better stats, the 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 is fine, but I fail to see where the other rather severe bonus come from...CR 5, that's funny Mithreander

Show me where the math comes from. I have no problem with giving you a better steed (a Winter Wolf even), and I believe I let Wekerak buy one, BTW.
4000 GP or something like that.

I have no problem helping your steed survive, but I would appreciate if you pointed me to the 'Elite' rules in question.

-Thanks, Ron...er, I mean 'Uriel'.

Pretty cool, huh? I had fun doing it besides! I made a mistkae, actually, this would be a CR7 creature. I forgot to add a +1 for the increase in size, and the +1 for using the Elite Array. I'll explain below.

Okay, here's the break down, all of which are explained in the SRS for 3.5. Here's a link to the exact page I was refering to: HERE

First was this section:
Increased Hit Dice: Intelligent creatures that are not humanoid in shape, and nonintelligent monsters, can advance by increasing their Hit Dice. Creatures with increased Hit Dice are usually superior specimens of their race, bigger and more powerful than their run-of-the-mill fellows.

Next, the abilities (four factors play here):
First:
Elite Array: The elite array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. While the monster has one weakness compared to a typical member of its race, it is significantly better overall. The elite array is most appropriate for monsters who add levels in a player character class.

Second:
SIZE INCREASES
A creature may become larger when its Hit Dice are increased (the new size is noted parenthetically in the monster’s Advancement entry).

Worg: Advancement: 5–6 HD (Medium); 7–12 HD (Large)

Granted, it lists a max of 12 hd, so I may and probably should lower it by one (from 13 to 12), and to do so would lower it's CR to 6. That's explained momentarily.

A size increase affects any special ability the creature has that is affected by size. Increased size also affects a creature’s ability scores, AC, attack bonuses, and damage values as indicated on the tables below.

Table: Changes to Statistics by Size
Medium to Large- Str+8, Dex–2, Con+4, Natural Armor+2, AC/Attack–1

Table: Increased Damage By Size
Old damage: 1d6 New damage: 1d8

Third:
Racial Bonuses
A worgs initial stats are: Str 17, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 10
Which breaks down to racial bonuses of: Str+6 Dex+4 Con+4 Int-4 Wis+2 Chr +0


Lastly, advancement bonuses:
Ability Score Improvement: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. This only applies to Hit Dice increases, monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they “already reached” with their racial Hit Dice, since these adjustments are included in their basic ability scores.

Thus, with 9 more hd, he would get an bonus of +2 to abilities, where the creator chooses (one for ever 4 HD).

Third, CR determination:

Worgs base CR: 2

When you improve a monster by adding Hit Dice, use Table: Improved Monster CR Increase to determine the effect on the creature’s CR. Keep in mind that many monsters that advance by adding Hit Dice also increase in size. Do not stack this CR increase with any increase from class levels. In general, once you’ve doubled a creature’s CR, you should closely watch any additional increases in its abilities. Adding Hit Dice to a creature improves several of its abilities, and radical increases might not follow this progression indefinitely. Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly.

Table: Improved Monster CR Increase
Animal, magical beast, monstrous humanoid +1 per 3 HD added
Size increased to Large or larger +1 to CR
Monster’s ability scores based on elite array +1 to CR

So, with only 8 added instead of 9 that would be a plus 2CR instead of a plus 3. That and the other two CR increases brings brings the Worg to CR6.

Other improvements associated with HD increas:

INCREASING HIT DICE

As its Hit Dice increase, a creature’s attack bonuses and saving throw modifiers might improve. It gains more feats and skills, depending on its type, as shown on Table: Creature Improvement by Type.

Note that if a creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type.

Table: Creature Improvement by Type
Magical beast Hit Die: d10 HD Attack Bonus: (as fighter) Good Saving Throws: Fort, Ref Skill Points: 2 + Int mod per HD
 

That's one fearsome pup! One thing I notice though, (and I could be wrong on this) is that I don't believe creatures get iterative attacks with their natural weapons from high BAB. As a pre-buffed animal, it's pretty beefy even for our party.
 

Mithreander said:
Pretty cool, huh? I had fun doing it besides! I made a mistkae, actually, this would be a CR7 creature. I forgot to add a +1 for the increase in size, and the +1 for using the Elite Array. I'll explain below.

Okay, here's the break down, all of which are explained in the SRS for 3.5. Here's a link to the exact page I was refering to: HERE

First was this section:
Increased Hit Dice: Intelligent creatures that are not humanoid in shape, and nonintelligent monsters, can advance by increasing their Hit Dice. Creatures with increased Hit Dice are usually superior specimens of their race, bigger and more powerful than their run-of-the-mill fellows.

Next, the abilities (four factors play here):
First:
Elite Array: The elite array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. While the monster has one weakness compared to a typical member of its race, it is significantly better overall. The elite array is most appropriate for monsters who add levels in a player character class.

Second:
SIZE INCREASES
A creature may become larger when its Hit Dice are increased (the new size is noted parenthetically in the monster’s Advancement entry).

Worg: Advancement: 5–6 HD (Medium); 7–12 HD (Large)

Granted, it lists a max of 12 hd, so I may and probably should lower it by one (from 13 to 12), and to do so would lower it's CR to 6. That's explained momentarily.

A size increase affects any special ability the creature has that is affected by size. Increased size also affects a creature’s ability scores, AC, attack bonuses, and damage values as indicated on the tables below.

Table: Changes to Statistics by Size
Medium to Large- Str+8, Dex–2, Con+4, Natural Armor+2, AC/Attack–1

Table: Increased Damage By Size
Old damage: 1d6 New damage: 1d8

Third:
Racial Bonuses
A worgs initial stats are: Str 17, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 10
Which breaks down to racial bonuses of: Str+6 Dex+4 Con+4 Int-4 Wis+2 Chr +0


Lastly, advancement bonuses:
Ability Score Improvement: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. This only applies to Hit Dice increases, monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they “already reached” with their racial Hit Dice, since these adjustments are included in their basic ability scores.

Thus, with 9 more hd, he would get an bonus of +2 to abilities, where the creator chooses (one for ever 4 HD).

Third, CR determination:

Worgs base CR: 2

When you improve a monster by adding Hit Dice, use Table: Improved Monster CR Increase to determine the effect on the creature’s CR. Keep in mind that many monsters that advance by adding Hit Dice also increase in size. Do not stack this CR increase with any increase from class levels. In general, once you’ve doubled a creature’s CR, you should closely watch any additional increases in its abilities. Adding Hit Dice to a creature improves several of its abilities, and radical increases might not follow this progression indefinitely. Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly.

Table: Improved Monster CR Increase
Animal, magical beast, monstrous humanoid +1 per 3 HD added
Size increased to Large or larger +1 to CR
Monster’s ability scores based on elite array +1 to CR

So, with only 8 added instead of 9 that would be a plus 2CR instead of a plus 3. That and the other two CR increases brings brings the Worg to CR6.

Other improvements associated with HD increas:

INCREASING HIT DICE

As its Hit Dice increase, a creature’s attack bonuses and saving throw modifiers might improve. It gains more feats and skills, depending on its type, as shown on Table: Creature Improvement by Type.

Note that if a creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type.

Table: Creature Improvement by Type
Magical beast Hit Die: d10 HD Attack Bonus: (as fighter) Good Saving Throws: Fort, Ref Skill Points: 2 + Int mod per HD

My head hurts from all of the 'this increases, thus that increase' math.
Quite an impressive beast, to be honest.
Acceptable for your mount? No.

I think that such a Worg would be rediculously powerful for your free steed. Regardless of whether the math works out or not , Blaught would become a mere footnote to the +22 Biting 134 Hp Death Machine.

Wekerak has a Winter Wolf, which looks like a chihuaua compared to the Worg listed above.
So, I am going to 'No' the Elite rules, which I can't really see being applicable for this.
I will let you add some HD (with the accompanying Base bonus), but the Worg you posted above would be impossible for you to get even with Leadership
(Worg +1 and the CR9=10, which you couldn't do until 12th Level if your leadership score totaled enough).
So, bring him up to CR 5, whch should be +3 HD if I am not wrong.


As far as him being able to survive, I am not known for murdering steeds/familiars or pets, so he has a decent chance to survive, unless that aforementioned army of Celesials happens by (I'm sure he'd do just fine anyways...).
 

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