Removing 5 Spells

IMC, about 100+ years ago the main bad guy starting setting up a network to "dampen" some of the more powerful forms of divination because he was ready to come out of hiding (after millennia of being underground) and doesn't want people to figure up what he's up to. He was clever enough about it that, while people know that divination doesn't work, they don't know why.

I disallowed:
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Scrying (and, by default, Detect Scrying and Greater Scrying)
Contact Other Plane
Legend Lore (and Vision)
Discern Location
Divination
Commune

So, I went past the "5 spell" limit. I also disallowed many types of planar travel under the explanation that people had "forgotten" how. It's something that the characters can discover over the course of the campaign, and will be pretty much available once the main baddie decides to reveal himself.
 

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I allow all sorts of info gathering spells but they all have to be cast in the right places, as ritual spells sometimes requiring a week or more preparation per difficulty factor in the question. Scry will likely be found out because it requires a lot of time to cast and the one being spied upon gets multiple chances to sense the intrusion and react.

They might be alone in a glade somewhere playing with a bunny -- but only when you watch them. Or maybe, if they haven't started their own magics to counter you they are doing something or sending information that is very dangerous to the watchers and their alignments.

S



Samothdm said:
I disallowed:
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Scrying (and, by default, Detect Scrying and Greater Scrying)
Contact Other Plane
Legend Lore (and Vision)
Discern Location
Divination
Commune

So, I went past the "5 spell" limit. I also disallowed many types of planar travel under the explanation that people had "forgotten" how. It's something that the characters can discover over the course of the campaign, and will be pretty much available once the main baddie decides to reveal himself.
 

Gez said:
Same thing for the fast movement/teleportation ones. If, after 8 levels of plot hooks that are "move from place A to place B and get beat up by wandering monsters on the way", you're not tired of that and yearning for a change of pace anyway, you obviously do not have the same patience as me.

I've played a lot of high level play. Never going on a journey, always popping from one place to the next destination instantly can get annoying as a PC. It compresses time artificially in a game that already advances you quickly and is a block to in-game down time. The only time my character with a sailing background gets on a boat is when he decides it would be a fun diversion to do so, ships and horses, roads and trails are generally irrelevant to him but I have this big traveller/wanderer concept and I want them to be relevant. He sees less of the world and gets less of the flavor that I enjoy.
 

It's always fun to play with spell availability. Arcana unearthed does that (and pretty much equals Gomez' list). Myself, I'd remove Muddy Ground and Ghost Weapon from AU and probably will next time I run it.

Book of Eldritch Might gave me several ideas to play with, esp. regarding teleportation. It has several spells that block or modify teleport (my favorite is Teleport Redirect, which overrides the destination of an incoming or outgoing teleport spell).
 

For a campaign where magic runs more off classical elemental theory, remove all force effects.

mage armor
magic missile
wall of force
Mordenkainen's sword
shield
and others that are essentially variants of the same: Bigby's hand spells, forcecage, Leomund's tiny hut, Otiluke's resilient/telekinetic sphere, Tenser's floating disc.

blade barrier remains, but loses the Force descriptor as the blades are made of iron, ice or glass.

explosive runes remains but does sonic damage.

spiritual weapon remains but loses the Force descriptor, doing alignment-based damage instead.

Incorporeal creatures are affected by attacks and protection/magic circle spells of opposite alignment descriptors.
 
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If you stick to only using the Player's Handbook for spells, then you only really need to eliminate around 5 spells to create some extra flavor for your campaign..... Or, if you really insist on using many books with spells in them, remove 5 spells from each book.

What my list would look like, in a few incarnations (using 3E mind you, as I don't yet run 3.5E):

List A (removing most vast-distance, almost completely safe, nigh-instant-transportation)
1. Teleport
2. Teleport Without Error
3. Teleportation Circle
4. Etherealness
5. Shadow Walk
Dimension Door has a relatively short range, whereas Etherealness can cover vast distances with each casting and still bypass obstacles. Plane Shift is kinda unpredictable about where it deposits you on the destination plane, and it specifies that it transports you to another plane, and from the Material plane you can to go any other plane, so it cannot go from one point on the plane to another; you'd have to cast once to go to a different plane, then cast again to go back to the plane you came from, though you'd get to choose generally where to show up each time. Not nearly so instantaneous, on-the-mark, or whatnot as Teleport in most cases. Plus the focus component for Plane Shift is described as needing to be a certain type based on the destination plane, and may be hard to find at the DM's discretion, so it's likely the character would need a high Knowledge (the planes) check to know the proper focus for any given plane. One check per plane, really.

List B (simplifying the DM's/players' jobs)
1. Shapechange
2. Teleport Without Error
3. Discern Location
4. Polymorph Other
5. Polymorph Any Object

List C (preferred, removes screw-you spells that more or less can't be remedied/prevented/reduced/resisted well)
1. Mordenkainen's Disjunction
2. Enervation
3. Energy Drain
4. Harm (Feeblemind instead in 3.5)
5. Geas/Quest
Imprisonment can be avoided by simply not allowing anyone to learn your name, or using Illusions/Abjurations to keep enemies from finding out sufficient personal info about you. Two or three spells can locate an Imprisoned creature, and one or two can free them, and it requires touch to use. Power Word Kill can be avoided by simply keeping your hit points above 100 or casting Death Ward. Force Cage can be Disintegrated or, in cage form, escaped through all kinds of spells, like Gaseous Form or Dimension Door I think. Temporal Stasis requires touch, which like Imprisonment, can be avoided by simply going incorporeal or ethereal with a readied action. Polymorph Any Object requires touch, and cannot affect incorporeal or Gaseous Form stuff. Maze can be Plane Shifted out of, and high-Intelligence characters can find their way out in a few rounds otherwise. Most Symbols allow a save or are limited like Power Word Kill only moreso, and can generally be removed with the Erase spell. Otto's Irresistable Dance is thwarted by Mind Blank, which is the same spell level, and can be Greater Dispelled otherwise, plus it requires touch. Other stuff can generally be avoided, lessened, or dispatched with either Mind Blank, Break Enchantment, Death Ward, Greater Dispelling, or simply a saving throw. Some of the above, and some on my list, are lower-level than these countermeasures and thus impossible to negate/prevent/lessen when likely to be encountered for the first few times.
 

1) Flight -- I hate it, as it as low level spell that changes the game from pseudomedieval to superheroic.
2) ESP -- Until d20 (which I don't play), it was a low level spell that denied investigative adventures
3) Raise Dead and similars -- Nuff said.

All others such as teleport and several from the school of divination would be better to be raised in one or two levels, but those three I think are the main offenders.
 

Gomez said:
If you removed 5 spells from the all caster's spell lists to provide a interesting change in magical dynamics in a campaign. What would they be and why?

1. Fly
2. Levitate
3. Dimension Door
4. Polymorph (bird forms only)
5. Alter Self (wings only)

Why? Because those spells add a tactical dimension to the game that removes certain challenges. I enjoy D&D games immensely, including being able to fly. But flying is difficult to represent in three dimensions, requires many more special case rules, depends more on facing - yet facing is gone, and is a bone of contention for players whose characters can't fly. Note that I would keep teleport. Although this is slightly outside the exercise, I'd make teleport into just teleport circle so the ability to move from place to place becomes a tactical consideration.

My "B" list would be to remove or severely downgrade all the skill boosts, but Arcana Evolved does that for me, and that's what I run now for my f2f games. I'm happy with it.
 

List # 1 (most recent group of players)
1. Fire Ball
2. Scorching Ray
3. Flaming Sphere
4. Burning Hands
5. Anything else that deals fire damage

Becuase when I did allow these spells to those players they were so short sighted that they started 3 forest fires and burned down 4 blocks across 3 cities forgeting that wood catchs fire, while in thick bush and in wooden buildings and that Fireball has a 40ft diamiter in 3 dimetions.

List #2 (Less headakes for me becuase players dont keep track of own stuff)
1. Anything with Level Drain
2. Anything with XP cost
3. Anything that Summons (Unless the PC is willing to do the work of knowing and remebering the summons abilites)
 

I personally don't ban jack, but here are the 5 common complaint spells

1.) Raise Magic (et all).
2.) Teleport Magic/Plane shifting magic
3.) Flight Granting Magic
4.) Scry/Divination
5.) TIE: Energy Damage Magic and Summons

Course, I've heard DM gripe about cure spells, enchantments (dominatiing the barkeep), illusions (esp save or dies or hard to adjuncate) necromancy (same, + undead armies) buff spells (bull str, divine favor), communication spells (sending, message) and "home ec" spells (create food, mordy's lodge)

If the mythical 4e removes all the spells that DM gripe about, I think the only spell in the PH would be Read Magic. ;)
 

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