Removing/modifying the Cantrips Subsystem

[ren1999]

This is the way I wanted cantrips to be.

The caster makes a weapon attack but with 1d20+magical ability modifier+proficiency modifier.
The weapon Mage Hand's back to the caster after a ranged attack.

all magical ranges start at 30 ft.

Cantrip damage starts at 1d12.

Adding one target reduces the damage 1 die step down to 1d10.
Adding the range +30 ft. reduces the damage 1 die step down.

Adding one of these effects reduces the damage 1 die step down.
necrotic - the target damages its enemies at disadvantage for 1 round
force- pushes back a target 5 ft.
poison or curse - temporarily reduces an ability by -2 cumulative
fire - ongoing damage, add +2 to the damage roll on the target.
lightning - reduces 1 action or 1 reaction for 1 round
acid - the target attacks at disadvantage for 1 round
cold - reduces speed 10 ft.

casting any cantrip at Slot level 1 increases the base dice by 1 step up. 2d12.
Slot level 2 3d12, and so on.

at 5th level the damage dice starts at 2d12, a step down would be 2d10. Casting at slot level 1 3d12, etc.
10th lvl 3d12
15th lvl 4d12

My Tracker dnd5.weebly.com

 

[GMMichael]

Take Firebolt: oh no, the wizard can consistantly do less damage than the melee classes, such a game changer. Or Mend. Now that magic can fix stuff with no expenditure the world shall enter a new golden age!

A little harsh Yunru. I forgive you.

Fire bolt sets things on fire. Immediately, if not carried or worn. That's an instantaneous jump from 70 degrees F to over 200 degrees. And according to my Basic Rules, it does d10 damage, which doesn't sound like less than a melee class could do. You don't think this has tremendous industrial uses? Forges would be eliminated - all you'd need is two slave-mages. Solid waste disposal - laborers, wagons, and trenches - could disappear in favor of repurposed wells and a trash-mage. No more sewer adventures! Have a cold castle? Just chain up a fire bolt mage in the dungeon and tell him to aim at the walls. Neverwinter just became a bit more mysterious.

Now, what's written between the lines is this: just as a fighter can't swing his sword all day long, neither can a mage cast fire bolt all day long. But interestingly, the rules don't forbid it. Which isn't such a big deal with tool swinging (ever heard of a miner?). But with spellcasting it is, as Sadrik said, a world changer.

 

[Yunru]

Actually a fighter can swing his sword all day long. I guess this is a massive problem for forests everywhere too? And no, Fire Bolt can set things on fire, not "always does."

As for 1d10 being oh-so massive: Average damage 5.5.
Regular dex-based dagger user: 1d4+3, average 5.5. 1d4+4, 6.5. 1d4+5, 7.5.
Or even Unarmed Strike on a str based character: 1+5, 6.
So yes, considering the lowest damaging weapon in the game outdamages a Fire Bolt, it's most definitely less damage.

 

[Sadrik]

Actually a fighter can swing his sword all day long. I guess this is a massive problem for forests everywhere too? And no, Fire Bolt can set things on fire, not "always does."

As for 1d10 being oh-so massive: Average damage 5.5.
Regular dex-based dagger user: 1d4+3, average 5.5. 1d4+4, 6.5. 1d4+5, 7.5.
Or even Unarmed Strike on a str based character: 1+5, 6.
So yes, considering the lowest damaging weapon in the game outdamages a Fire Bolt, it's most definitely less damage.

I think what you are attributing to cantrips is only a gamist perspective. Gamist is very important, I do not want to diminish its importance in D&D. However, there are other perspectives to this and you are avoiding those other perspectives by only looking through that one lens. Two perspectives you are not looking at.

1. This is not how 1e/2e/3e were done with regard to at-will magic (other than some later 3e stuff). This is mostly a 4e thing. At-will magic was primarily in 1e/2e/3e as a wand thing. Which you got several levels into the game and was a finite resource, even then.
2. There are many world applications if some magical effect can go off every 6 seconds from a 1st level caster. DMMike gave some good examples here. Ideas similar to these formed much of the backdrop to the Eberron world. And is the idea that magic is technology.

So for me when I look at the cantrip subsystem (or any subsystem really) I want to look at it through those three lenses, Gamism, D&D Legacy, and World Creation. I think the current cantrip model is holding up on the gamism front (your argument) but the other two are lacking.

 

[Yunru]

So 1. Can be easily enough countered: This isn't 1/2/3/4e.

And 2. Isn't a problem. Hell if it isn't hired help it'd be captured creatures that do it (at least in the more prominent forges etc.).