Removing X ability score minimum to cast spells

[Stormonu]

I can't remember what got me thinking about this, but I believe I'm planning to drop requiring spellcasters to have a minimum score to cast a spell of a given level.

Having thought about it, I feel that it does nothing for the game or players except encourage ability score bloat. Honestly, it seems like reaching the appropriate level to cast the spell in the first place is accomplishment enough. Requiring a minimum score, which in turn affects DCs and bonus spells, just make things worse.

Has anyone implemented this into their game?

 

[billd91]

I can't remember what got me thinking about this, but I believe I'm planning to drop requiring spellcasters to have a minimum score to cast a spell of a given level.

Having thought about it, I feel that it does nothing for the game or players except encourage ability score bloat. Honestly, it seems like reaching the appropriate level to cast the spell in the first place is accomplishment enough. Requiring a minimum score, which in turn affects DCs and bonus spells, just make things worse.

Is it really that bloaty to require a 19 for the highest level of spells? Do most campaigns get that high a level? Don't most casters start with at least a 16 and the capability of casting all the spells they could get between 1st and 11th level anyway?

I guess I'm asking if this is really a big problem or a solution in search of a problem?

 

[Stormonu]

I guess I'm asking if this is really a big problem or a solution in search of a problem?

It's a bit of a mix. Mostly an epiphany.

I've never seen someone put below a 15 in their main ability score in 3E, and the raises you get over levels would ensure that you would have a 19 by the time you're casting the high level spells.

But why have it in the first place? Non-spellcasting classes do not have such requirements to wield weapons or use their abilities. Likewise, it should cut down on the "need" to have stat-boosting items (my main issue), spells or attempts to eek out every bonus to ensure you meet the minimums (I've known several players who would not play a wizard if they could not start with a 19 Intelligence).

It also makes a half-orc spellcaster a lot more viable.

 

[Rampant]

Not really, pathfinder half-orcs get +2 to a chosen score, they're actually decent wizards, especially if the con drop from elves makes you nervous with that already low HD.

However the purpose of the minimum score isn't to stop low stat characters from casting spells, no casting class is ever in real danger of that, because of those whose casting isn' their primary function have other abilities running off the same stat to encourage high ability score priority. The purpose of the minimum stat is primarily for item benchmarks. An item which grants the target a saving throw calculates the DC as if the creator had the minimum relevant stat. IF you remove the minimums you'll need a new benchmark.

 

[blargney the second]

As long as you make casting stat penalties remove spell slots appropriately, I think you're good to go.

 

[concerro]

Most people will put stats in that score anyway to make sure monsters fail saves, and to get extra spells. Needing a minimum of 19 for 9th level spell which can be had well before 10th level has nothing to do with it. It can actually be had by level 4, even if the player is not even trying hard.

 

[concerro]

Half-orcs are already viable. They can put 16 in the primary stat from point buy alone, use the +2 racial bonus from the half-orc, and add the +1 bonus at level 4 to get a 19. They also get orc ferocity allowing the low hp caster to stay up an extra round. They have darkvision which makes them harder to ambush.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Having thought about it, I feel that it does nothing for the game or players except encourage ability score bloat. Honestly, it seems like reaching the appropriate level to cast the spell in the first place is accomplishment enough. Requiring a minimum score, which in turn affects DCs and bonus spells, just make things worse.

Nobody* pumps their spellcasting stat up because they need to do that in order to cast high-level spells; they do it for the DCs and bonus spells. So the only thing your proposed rule will do is make spellcasters less vulnerable to ability damage.

Very few people think spellcasters need any further advantages, but if you do, by all means go for it. Just don't be surprised if your house rule has zero impact on "ability score bloat."

* except possibly paladins, rangers, and such classes

 

[tylermalan]

Also, removing this requirement would HEAVILY affect multiclassing into spellcasting classes, and I wouldn't be surprised if there would be abuse cases.

 

[Mad Hamish]

As other people have pointed out the main reason ability scores for casters are huge isn't because of max levels of spells but because of saving throw dcs (and bonus spells)

I don't see if having much impact on most offensive spellcasters because they'll still want the saving throw DCs high.
I suspect it'll be a boost to characters like summoners, alchemists and inquisators ( & sorcerers who go for buffing and attacking) who can pump their physical stats more.