Replace Paladin's Mount with ??

[Jovah]

hello-

I am looking to create a Paladin w/o the mount. It is really just a flavor thing - I don't see the PC as the mounteed Knight.

What would be some equivalent things he could have?

- Start spells earlier
- more spells
- weapon specialization
- new Monte "Call Sword" earlier

- ??

suggestions most welcome

 

[Mordane76]

From a comparable power perspective, trading the mount for spells isn't really a fair trade. In the long run, you'll get more ride out of extra spells or starting spells earlier as a Paladin.

Weapon Specialization, IMO, is the province of the Fighter, and should remain such -- if you want it, take four levels of fighter before you become a paladin; the two other extra feats won't hurt you, either.

I don't know what Monte's Call Sword ability is, or from what reference is comes, so I can't grade its power. If its anything like the called modification from Defenders of the Faith, then I'd say that's not a bad trade.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

If you wanted to give up the mount, I'd give you a domain (from your patron diety or philosophy) and let you spontaneous cast cure spells as a cleric. This would give you one additional slot per spell level (for domain spells) and a domain ability.

Do I think this is overpowering? No. I've seen a pretty wicked Celestial Griffon mount.

 

[nameless]

I've thought about this as well. Not all paladins are in a line of work where it's smart and/or beneficial to have a mount following them around. I came up with the following things:

1. Free leadership feat and cohort, with extra "leadership rating" bonus to reflect the holy nature of his following.

2. Ancestral weapon ability ala OA samurai. Let the paladin choose his weapons to improve, possibly a weapon and shield.

3. This isn't a perfect fit, but in Dragonstar, only Paladins gain access to divine spellware (instead of a bonded mount), which is kind of a magical cybernetic modifiication. I think it doesn't hurt suspension of disbelief too badly if we were to say that the spellware is pure enchantment.

-nameless

 

[the Jester]

I think early leadership (as soon as you're second level you're eligible to take it as a feat) or a domain and spontaneous healing are both great ideas, and I don't think they really upset the class' balance really. Ancestral weapon is also a good idea.

I have to agree with Mordane also. I guess I'm just in agreement here.

 

[Destil]

The paladin in my game isn't taking a mount, either. So we've talked a bit about alowing some undead-related bonuses, since he's follower of a church focused on that sort of thing. As is for right now I'm leaning towards something like the following list:

Trade basic mount (lvl 5) for a divine feat or a Meta-Turning feat (empower turning or extra turning, for instance).

Trade 2 remove disease / week for 1 extra smite evil / day or for 1 smite undead / day.
Trade 2 remove disease / week for +1 effective level of turning undead (this may only be taken at most twice: a paladin who does so would turn undead as a cleric of his level at the cost of 4 uses of remove disease / week).
Trade 1 remove disease / week for 1 turn undead attempts / day.
Trade 1 remove disease / week for +1 favored enemy bonus vs. undead (as per a ranger's bonus, only applicable to damage despite the un-critiable nature of undead. May be taken at most 4 times).

Trade heal mount for negative energy protection in his spell list.

Trade command creatures advanced mount ability (level 11) for a single spell like ability usable 1/day from the following list. These are cast as if by a cleric of paladin’s full level (not his effective caster level):
Concencrated Aura (as per concencrate only with a personal range, emanating from the paladin himself and lasting 1 minuet / level rather than 2 hours / level).
Daylight (personal range, must be cast on the paladin’s body or a piece of his gear which must remain in his possession for the duration, otherwise the effect ends).
Glyph of Warding (keyable only to undead, uses positive energy rather than elemental).
Magic Weapon (adds the undead bane or disruption [paladin’s choice each time the power is used] special property to the weapon as well as a +1 enhancement bonus).

Edit: Cleaned things up a bit.
Edit: Much poor spelling corrected.
Edit: Corrections corrected. Damn spell check.

 

[Mordane76]

The only one of your trades I'm leery of is the last one, Destil -- anything that allows a character extra damage against the undead is asking for trouble; I think everything else is pretty kosher. I like to use a lot of undead in my campaigns, and hence I'm remiss to grant extra damage to characters against the undead without going for item enhancements.

 

[Destil]

The only one of your trades I'm leery of is the last one, Destil -- anything that allows a character extra damage against the undead is asking for trouble; I think everything else is pretty kosher. I like to use a lot of undead in my campaigns, and hence I'm remiss to grant extra damage to characters against the undead without going for item enhancements.

The last one is clearly borderline, I'm well aware of it. There's a lot of reasoning behind it:

a) Command others of it's kind is better than you may think at first. It can make an even fight between two mounted opponents completely lopsided, for instance. It's usable once per day per two paladin levels. The mount is the one using the spell like ability, giving you a big boost (you can both take a standard action... add in mass haste and...)

b) While I stated that it's traded for the specific command others ability it's also a nod towards the general increase in power over time from a mount.

c) I assumed that the paladin would be using their war horse quite a bit, as much as a paladin of the church of Aetha will be fighting undead. An extra undead bane weapon in the party (since it's only +1, I suspect it'll be going to other PCs often, an anti-undead paladin should have better by now) will be nothing compared to what a spirited charge with a holy lance could do. Also magic weapon doesn’t have a very long duration.

d) It's a nice gift to a PC who forgoes the possibility of a full 10 levels in a prestige class in favor of a base class, like a rogue's special abilities.

e) One third level spell per day generally won't do much to balance at 11th level.