Replacing Perception with Thievery

[Stalker0]

Since I generally like the idea being thrown around I thought I would write up a quick summary of the idea for discussion.


Special Skill: Perception

Perception checks are called for to detect hidden creatures, notice key bits of detail, or find hidden traps and secret passages. Perception is not a skill itself, but an aspect of several skills. The skill you use to roll a perception check is based on the environment you are in, and what you are looking for.

Arcana: Magical effects and items.
Dungeonering: Underground environments.
Nature: Outdoor environments.
Streetwise: Urban environments
Thievery: Traps, Secret Doors


Example: Bob the Ranger hears some whispers from a tunnel ahead as he moves through an underground passage. He makes a dungeoneering check. He succeeds, which allows Bob to position himself to make the best use of the echoes and allows him to hear the conversation.

 

[Kzach]

The problem with getting rid of Perception altogether then becomes, "What if my character has none of those skills?"

Which was why I was thinking of keeping Perception as a catch-all for generalised information.

 

[Stalker0]

The problem with getting rid of Perception altogether then becomes, "What if my character has none of those skills?"

Then he makes whatever skill roll is appropriate.

If he doesn't have perception trained normally, then your not going to be good at seeing.

If you have no of the other skills we are talking about, then you are not going to be good at seeing.

You don't need the perception skill as a fallback. Players should be expected to take the other skills if they want to be good at seeing in this system.

 

[BobTheNob]

I have been using Theivery for spotting traps since I picked up the PHB1 and said to myself "that sux".

It works, its good.

Mind you, I LOVE the idea from a previous post and not having a perception skill, and instead using the most appropriate skill...that just plain rocks! Im going to investigate trying to implement that.

 

[LostSoul]

Like I say upthread, I'm using a different system that relies on appropriate skills only. I go into a lot of detail in how my skill system works on my AP thread. There you can see how it works in our game.

Here is the most in-depth post of some skill checks. Silverleaf, the character in the example, has only two skills (since he is a Henchman, a companion character built using the DMG2 rules). Those skills are "Keen Elven Eyesight" and "Prince of the Woodsong".

 

[ravenheart]

My suggestion would be to ditch Perception all together, and to use a good old ability check (WIS or INT maybe?) when trying to find/spot something in an unfamiliar environment.

Technically, it is as if the character was not trained in Perception. This makes it possible to keep the DC at the same level for everyone.

The same could possibly be done with Insight - make an ability check (WIS or maybe CHA?) when trying to get a read on an awkward social situation.

As is, I rarely see ability checks these days. They are supposed to be catch all anyway.

 

[Kzach]

My suggestion would be to ditch Perception all together, and to use a good old ability check (WIS or INT maybe?) when trying to find/spot something in an unfamiliar environment.

Technically, it is as if the character was not trained in Perception. This makes it possible to keep the DC at the same level for everyone.

The same could possibly be done with Insight - make an ability check (WIS or maybe CHA?) when trying to get a read on an awkward social situation.

As is, I rarely see ability checks these days. They are supposed to be catch all anyway.

You have far too many good ideas to be human. What dimension are you from?

 

[BobTheNob]

I dont mind keeping a skill in that slot (avoids major conept problems like racial/feat/paragon/item bonus's to perception...what happens to them!). What I am tossing up is

a) Definitely using the idea of alternate skills for "find and spot" scenarios. I just love that, no more "Elf Sylvan archer never fails to find something" nights.

b) (and this where i vary from previous posts) replacing perception with "danger sense". A purely passive skill which only works to give players a quick "there is danger around the corner" heads up, and is used to avoid surprise. Anything that is a bonus to perception is replace with a bonus to Danger Sense

That way we still have a very relevant "spotting" skill, but perceptions responsibility has been scattered out to other skills, leaving in its place danger sense, which is amuch more narrow band application, yet incredibly valuable none-the-less

 

[Kzach]

That way we still have a very relevant "spotting" skill, but perceptions responsibility has been scattered out to other skills, leaving in its place danger sense, which is amuch more narrow band application, yet incredibly valuable none-the-less

I like it. It neatly solves the 'what do we do with Perception bonuses now?' problem. Also, it could remain as a spotting hidden/invisible skill as well. These two factors would make it still a very useful skill worth putting points into and on par with other skills, but no longer the be-all-and-end-all skill that it currently is.

 

[Kzach]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...ging-role-perception-insight.html#post5324623