Replacing Powerful Build...

[Flynn]

I've regarded powerful build as being rather too powerful, based on my experiences during one shots, and as such, I've been thinking of replacing powerful build with a different ability that fills the same niche in my campaign. I figure I should probably check with other gamers to gain their insight into the matter, so I am posting my thoughts here for your review.

From the racial description for Half-Giants:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants

Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.

Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.

A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

If someone's Large, then they should be Large, in my opinion. If someone's halfway between Medium and Large, then the racial ability should reflect that.

If you look at what Large gives you compared to Medium, we can come up with a nice list:

• -1 size modifier to attack rolls
• -1 size modifier to AC
• -4 size modifier on Hide checks
• +4 size modifier to opposed bull rush checks
• +4 size modifier to opposed disarm checks
• +4 size modifier to grapple checks
• +4 size modifier to opposed overrun checks
• +4 size modifier to opposed sunder checks
• +4 size modifier to opposed trip checks
• Increased space (from 5ft to 10ft)
• Sometimes natural reach
• Limits who can target you for special attacks with size restrictions (bull rush, improved grab, overrun, swallow whole, trample, trip)

Looking at this list, and starting with the assumption that, since you are not a Large creature, then you must be Medium, you can easily drop the following from the list:

• -1 size modifier to attack rolls
• -1 size modifier to AC
• Increased space (from 5ft to 10ft)
• Sometimes natural reach
• Limits who can target you for special attacks with size restrictions (bull rush, improved grab, overrun, swallow whole, trample, trip)

That leaves the special size modifiers. Converting them to a midway state should be simpler. All -4 penalties become -2, and all +4 bonuses become +2.

In addition, characters suffer a -2 penalty to attack rolls when using a weapon crafted for a creature one size category larger. Half of this penalty (since the character would be halfway in-between Medium and Large) would be -1 instead.

Finally, in regards to equipment, armor, weapons and clothing costs double for Large creatures. I think that it's okay to keep those costs at the Medium size range, but I suppose that the cost could be increased to 1.5x normal, if the DM so chose.

With that thought process, I came up with the following new special ability to replace powerful build in my campaigns:

* * * * *

Stout Build
Your stout physical structure allows you to act in many ways as if you were almost a size larger.

Whenever you are subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), you take half of the bonus or penalty (rounded down) granted to a creature one size category larger than you. Specifically, this grants you the following:

• -2 size modifier on Hide checks
• +2 size modifier to opposed bull rush checks
• +2 size modifier to opposed disarm checks
• +2 size modifier to grapple checks
• +2 size modifier to opposed overrun checks
• +2 size modifier to opposed sunder checks
• +2 size modifier to opposed trip checks

When fighting with weapons designed for a creature one size category larger than you, you only suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls instead of the standard -2 penalty.

You are still considered to be of your own size category for all other game mechanics, including (but not limited to) space, reach, equipment costs, and special abilities. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

* * * * *

What are your thoughts?

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[Fifth Element]

All that certainly makes sense. The issue is added complexity, by essentially adding a new size category in certain situations. If you're okay with the added complexity, your changes are logical.

 

[GreatLemur]

It's not really much added complexity if, instead of looking at it as a weird, halfway point between size categories, you take it as a set of racial characteristics (after all, that's what it would generally be used for). Seems perfectly reasonable, to me.

 

[maggot]

You have removed the ability to wield weapons one size larger. A human can wield a large longsword as a medium greatsword at -2 to hit. A race with your stout ability can weild it at -1. But neither race can wield a large greatsword.

If that is what you intended, I would drop the penalty instead of dropping it to -1 as this will almost never come up. How many humans do you see weilding large longswords instead of just buying a medium greatsword.

If you truly want something half-way between medium and large, you need to adjust the damage for a longsword to something halfway between d8 and 2d6 (d10 perhaps?), and the damage for a greatsword to something halfway between 2d6 and 3d6 (2d8 perhaps?). But that seems to complicated.

I suppose you could make a new "stout" weapon type. A stout weapon is so big it cannot be wielded by an average creatures of weapon's size. But a stout weapon can be wielded by a stout creature of the weapon's size without penalty. Light and one-handed stout weapons deal +1 damage. Two-handed stout weapons deal +2 damage.

 

[Flynn]

Light and one-handed stout weapons deal +1 damage. Two-handed stout weapons deal +2 damage.

Why don't I just add that to the racial description, since the biggest reason for using larger weapons is to get more damage?

Just a thought,
Flynn

 

[maggot]

Why don't I just add that to the racial description, since the biggest reason for using larger weapons is to get more damage?

I thought of that. But then every medium-size magic greatsword is available for use by the stout race. This is not the case for powerful build characters.

 

[frankthedm]

I too feel Powerful built is just a bit too good. I was toying around with a variant that lets those borderline characters use those hand and a half weapons as martial rather than exotic. Since those weapons are usually viewed as hand and a half weapons, those with 50% more hand should find them just right.

Big ‘un!: The human favoring half ogre is about as large as a medium critter can get

+2 bonus on checks where larger size helps
-2 on checks where larger size hurts.
+50% carrying capacity
+100% recommended daily intake of food and drink.
Can treat certain exotic weapons, typically ones that are exotic due to mass, as if martial weapons such as the Bastard sword, War Axe, Wotc Maul [hammer version of the war axe] and the greatbow {1d10 rather than 1d8]. The DM should provide a more complete list based on what weapons he allows.
Monkey’s grip as a bonus feat. In addition they do no suffer the -2 to hit with large versions of the Bastard sword, War Axe, Wotc Maul [hammer version of the war axe].

 

[Machiavelli]

How can a racial ability, in and of itself, be too powerful? For a Goliath maybe it is, but what about for a half-giant? Half-giants seem pretty well balanced to me, just barely worth taking the +1 LA.

 

[Flynn]

How can a racial ability, in and of itself, be too powerful?

In and of itself, nothing is too powerful. When taken in context with the rest of the game, and when played by people who abused the system in various One Shots that I've both played in and ran, then it becomes too powerful. I just don't like it for my games, and this is something that I'm working on to come up with a solution that makes sense to me. YMMV. If it works as is in your games, there's no need to change it, right?

In other words, no one really ever plays the game the same way at different tables (with the exception, perhaps, of organizations like the RPGA), and so how things work at one table doesn't always work well at another. In my case, Powerful Build didn't work well at my table.

Hope that helps,
Flynn

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I thought of that. But then every medium-size magic greatsword is available for use by the stout race. This is not the case for powerful build characters.

Huh? Are you saying that races with Powerful Build aren't able to use medium-size weapons? Or am I not understanding what you said?

Races with Powerful Build *can* use weapons of their size category, and those of one size larger. Note the description the Flynn quoted from the SRD.

Brad