Replacing Stat Boosting Items [Game Design]
- Thread starter Pierson_Lowgal
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ValhallaGH
Explorer
You could use the d20 Connan RPG method. I.E. give a +1 to all six ability scores at levels 6, 10, 14, 18, etc. Combine this with the normal +1 to a single ability every fourth level (as Connan does) and you'll have the equivalent of a +4 magic item on all ability scores.
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
As to limiting, I saw a HR suggested a while back that went the route of granting bonus point-buy credit instead of a flat + to attributes. This meant players tended to increase the lower stats instead of focusing on a higher stat.
Don't remember the # of point buy granted tho
Don't remember the # of point buy granted tho
Terraism
Explorer
I've been running a similar system for quite some time, and it's worked very well. It does, however, require some bookkeeping, so I'll warn you in advance. I've decreased treasure I give out by roughly 10%, and completely banned +stat items. It works out about the same, though a little better-rounded. Anyway, as follows:
Instead of flat stat bonuses being accelerated, I've set it up so they actually gain more point-buy value as they go up levels. This allows for a fairly balanced progression - while players still tend to focus on one or two abilities, especially as they get higher level, it is sometimes more beneficial to increase a low stat than raise an already high one higher (due to the increasing point buy costs.)
Several things of note. I allow point-buy points to be saved from level to level - unlike feats, skills, and ability score increases, they do not need to be spent all at once. That does allow for the characters to raise a single stat multiple times, though they'll usually have to save up for several levels at a time if they wish to do that. Also important is the fact that point-buy values are calculated before all modifiers - including racial mods and the like. Thus where the bookkeeping comes in - it's important, when increasing scores, to remember that "oh, right, I have a +2 racial Con bonus, so it's only three points to raise, not four." That sort of thing.
Lastly, I still grant a flat +1 ability score increase at the normal levels, which, like racial bonuses, is applied after point-buy value is determined. All in all, the system works quite well, inasmuch as it allows heroes with stat totals roughly as high as in the core rules, but without carrying lots of magic items devoted to it.
[Edit] Oh, right! The LA column. I saw a suggestion regarding that on the boards recently, and incorporated it into my system. I allow players to choose an LA+1 race at first level, but they have fewer points to spend increasing their stats. That continues over the 20 levels, so that they are always behind, ability-wise. Running a few examples up, it seemed an adequate compensation, for both sides of the divide.
Code:
Level Point-Buy Value LA +1 Point Buy
--------------------------------------------------
1 28 20
2 29 21
3 30 22
4 31 23
5 34 24
6 36 26
7 38 27
8 40 29
9 44 32
10 47 34
11 50 36
12 54 39
13 58 42
14 63 45
15 67 48
16 72 52
17 77 55
18 83 60
19 88 63
20 94 68Instead of flat stat bonuses being accelerated, I've set it up so they actually gain more point-buy value as they go up levels. This allows for a fairly balanced progression - while players still tend to focus on one or two abilities, especially as they get higher level, it is sometimes more beneficial to increase a low stat than raise an already high one higher (due to the increasing point buy costs.)
Several things of note. I allow point-buy points to be saved from level to level - unlike feats, skills, and ability score increases, they do not need to be spent all at once. That does allow for the characters to raise a single stat multiple times, though they'll usually have to save up for several levels at a time if they wish to do that. Also important is the fact that point-buy values are calculated before all modifiers - including racial mods and the like. Thus where the bookkeeping comes in - it's important, when increasing scores, to remember that "oh, right, I have a +2 racial Con bonus, so it's only three points to raise, not four." That sort of thing.
Lastly, I still grant a flat +1 ability score increase at the normal levels, which, like racial bonuses, is applied after point-buy value is determined. All in all, the system works quite well, inasmuch as it allows heroes with stat totals roughly as high as in the core rules, but without carrying lots of magic items devoted to it.
[Edit] Oh, right! The LA column. I saw a suggestion regarding that on the boards recently, and incorporated it into my system. I allow players to choose an LA+1 race at first level, but they have fewer points to spend increasing their stats. That continues over the 20 levels, so that they are always behind, ability-wise. Running a few examples up, it seemed an adequate compensation, for both sides of the divide.
Last edited:
The Truth
First Post
I've adapted a house rule in my campaign in the same spirit, after seeing far too many character decked out in number-boosting items. Instead of removing them entirely, I changed all the stat boosting items, and items that boost saves or AC, into rings. So there's rings of charisma and rings of resistance. You get to pick which two numbers you want boosted, and the other item slots go to interesting stuff.
Phlebas
First Post
I Just limit magic & gp in the game I GM to have a lower magic feel and avoid xmas tree effects (& yes you do need to adjust CR's) but no need to adjust anything else though.
In other games i play we're always commissioning and buying magic items and it becomes more of a mathematical optimisation than a role-playing game
depends what works for your group though....
In other games i play we're always commissioning and buying magic items and it becomes more of a mathematical optimisation than a role-playing game
depends what works for your group though....
wildstarsreach
First Post
Darklone said:That guy stole my first 3.0 houserule
It works fine till level 8. From then on, you need at least +2 items.
If you ban the statbooster items, you need more stat increases and some rules that avoid that PCs boost only one attribute.
Why is this bad? Joe wizard wants to be the best or most intellegent mage wout there. Yes, it could lead to horrible abuses but this can be scaled as the DM is the ultimate arbitor.
Bront
The man with the probe
Conan D20 uses the +1 every level, and it works fairly well. Particularly given you can't increase atributes via magic for the most part there.
It probably balances out, and if anything favors characters at lower levels (How many L3 characters have a +2 stat bonus item?). As for it going to the same stat, after a while, you don't get as much out of increasing your dex, int, or whatever, and because it happens so often, it's easier to give up a point or two for a less used stat. Have a low save? 2 levels gets you a net +1 to it beyond your class. Need to carry more? 1 level could lessen your load. Have a glass jaw? 2 levels gets you an extra HP per level retroactively.
It probably balances out, and if anything favors characters at lower levels (How many L3 characters have a +2 stat bonus item?). As for it going to the same stat, after a while, you don't get as much out of increasing your dex, int, or whatever, and because it happens so often, it's easier to give up a point or two for a less used stat. Have a low save? 2 levels gets you a net +1 to it beyond your class. Need to carry more? 1 level could lessen your load. Have a glass jaw? 2 levels gets you an extra HP per level retroactively.
Rystil Arden
First Post
It is bad for the same reason that everyone gets saves at a 1 per 2 level rate past epic: If you allow too much variance, you make certain saves guaranteed failure.wildstarsreach said:
Example: Joe the Wizard boosts his Int by 20 from stat raises. All else being equal, this gives him +10 to all his save DCs. Assuming his spells had previously been about 40% successes (good saves for his enemies) and they started out with the same stat he put in Int in all three of Con Dex and Wis (a strong assumption!), that would mean before his 20 extra Int, they had a 60% chance to save. Afterwards, they have a 10% chance to save (on their good save).
Now, they have 20 stat raises also, but they have to divide those among all 6 stats. If they divide them evenly among Dex Con and Wis and ignore all other stats, they'll have 25%-30% chance to save against all Joe's spells. If they pump one of these, they'll have a 60% on that one and 10% on the others. If they dare to put up another stat, they'll be even worse.
But wait! This goes for Joe too. So Joe, by raising Int, will save at best 10% of the time against another pumped caster (and then only on his Will saves and only if he put equal stats in Int and Wis, which is unliikely). So the entire game becomes a duel of Initiative rolls.
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