Reports from the Battle Front. Improved X feats and tactical feats.

[Darklone]

Still, automatic misses are weird. A bluff check or something similar would have been appropriate. But well... Deflect Arrows.

 

[Storminator]

Don't get me wrong, I *love* elusive combat.

But how do you explain to your group that your Dwarven rogue automatically misses the collosal dragon...and smacks the ranseur-using ranger on the other side? Farther than a full move action away from the rogue?

I am at a loss.

Your typical collosal dragon isn't going to have the DEX requirement for Dodge, so he won't be getting Elusive Target.

PS

 

[Scion]

how about a could giant then? huge size. You are on one side, the flanker is way over on the other side, you are both small size (or even tiny, whatever). How do you reach them in any useful way? combat may be fluid and not represented completely, but having to move 20+ feet in order to 'miss' by that degree.. well.. or any colossal creature with a dex of 13+ (the dragon could use a dexterity enhancing item or inherant bonuses or something)

the feat is great, and I may even try to get my dm to use it with/against us so that he can see if I can get it for a character of mine in the future.. but if this sort of situation comes up I would like to have some sembelence of a realistic answer.

 

[youspoonybard]

Your typical collosal dragon isn't going to have the DEX requirement for Dodge, so he won't be getting Elusive Target.

PS

I understand your point, but not all dragons have Dex 10...especially when items and spells are put into play. It is very possible for a creature to have this feat...and this feat is really good, if you ask me. Especially for a creature with DR of some sort that PC's are "encouraged" to use Power Attack on...and that PC's like to flank.

Still, if a Dwarven rogue charges a maximum of 40 feet in a round, yet can move that 40 ft, another, what, 30 feet *through* the dragon, another 5 feet so he can attack his flanking ally, then back the 35 feet again through the dragon...so he moves 110 feet that round and attacks?

It gets even more ridiculous when both allies are at the maximum range with giant reach.

It's kinda hard to tell your group, "No, you can't charge 120 feet. Yes, I know you just did that and attacked, but this turn you can't."

I mean, I'm not blind to all possibilities, like the dragon grabbing the guy and yanking them over to the second guy...but still, this feat has some issues that way.

Are there other feats that let you make a melee attack into a square you do not threaten?

 

[Rashak Mani]

The issue of hitting people further away than reach is easily house ruled... don't allow it. I should say much further actually... since two guys flanking someone will be 10' feet away.

Allow for hitting people only 5 feet further than their reach. So a giant flanking could hit the other giant on the other side only if that guy is right next to the elusive target.

 

[Artoomis]

I'd say Improved Trip is broken. An attack after a sucessful trip, an attack as an AoO for your opponent standing up, the prone +4 bonus (and the prone disadvantages), and your opponent having to take a standard action to stand up (losing a full attack), is just too much. It was already powerful in 3e, adding the AoO in 3.5e was a real mistake.

That said, if you can take it, it's a must. Coupled with two-weapon fighting, you can use your second (weak) attack for the touch-attack trip attempt, and then smack them with everything else when they're on the floor.

Off topic (sorry, but it needs to be done):

Standing up from a prone position requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity.

The Attack of Opportunity will take place just before he attempt to stand up. You can't trip him, because he's not up yet. He still gets to stand, but he takes an AoO as well. He can also still take a Standard Action - if he moves AND if the opponent has Combat Reflexes THEN he might be tripped again with the second AoO.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think there is some interesting potential for a high AC fighter with Elusive Target purposefully provoking AoOs via movement. Since you have Mobility, a mook is nearly guaranteed to miss.

If you position yourself cleverly, you can also crush the mook with your own AoO and then get a free attack on the BBEG from Cleave. This is not difficult if you have a reach weapon.

 

[two]

Off topic (sorry, but it needs to be done):



The Attack of Opportunity will take place just before he attempt to stand up. You can't trip him, because he's not up yet. He still gets to stand, but he takes an AoO as well. He can also still take a Standard Action - if he moves AND if the opponent has Combat Reflexes THEN he might be tripped again with the second AoO.

People keep saying this, apparantly with confidence, despite it being unsupported by both the core rules and commen sense.

The AOO is RESOLVED before the action that triggered it. This is not the same as saying the AOO occurrs "before" the action that triggered it (in the flow of game time). Because that makes no sense.

"I attempt to cast a spell."
"The enemy fighter hits you with an AOO"

The spell is in the PROCESS of being cast, the AOO is resolved, and based on that something happenes (the spell fails, it goes off, whatever).

Obviously if the spell is interrupted, the spell is lost; the AOO does not happen BEFORE the spell is started, but it is RESOLVED before. IF the AOO happens before the spell is started (in game terms), no spell could ever be interrupted by an AOO.

Similarly if somebody is standing up from prone, and provokes an AOO, the attack is resolved before the action is completed, but the action is "started" i.e. somebody is trying to stand up. How far up is he when the AOO goes off? The game does not say.

Now, D&D is turn based; it is not simultaneous; AOO's have to work this way in this kind of system. It's also not precise; you are left to fill in the details. Joe attempts to stand up, and Mary gets an AOO, chooses to trip, and trips him.

According to the rules, Joe could have been 1% finished standing up, or 99% finished; a spellcaster could be 1% started casting a spell, or 99% completed when the AOO goes off. It's not specified, and that much detail is not needed.

You claim you can't "trip" somebody who is attempting to stand up. What makes you think this? The person you are tripping could be 99% standing up by the time the AOO goes off (completely standing except for one bent knee) or 1% up (just supported on one hand/elbow). Why would your disallow somebody that's 99% of the way up to be tripped? Why do you think it's impossible to "trip" sombody prone that's trying to get up, even if they are still prone? (meaning put them competely down again)?

And more to the point, the core rules don't state you can't trip a prone creature. (to my knowledge).

In my view, Joe blew his move-equivalent action attempting to stand up; Mary tripped him back down. Joe lost the action. Now Joe can try again, provking another AOO from Mary if Mary has Combat Reflexes; if not, he stands up. If Mary has CR, he might get tripped down again.

 

[MarauderX]

In my view, Joe blew his move-equivalent action attempting to stand up; Mary tripped him back down. Joe lost the action. Now Joe can try again, provking another AOO from Mary if Mary has Combat Reflexes; if not, he stands up. If Mary has CR, he might get tripped down again.

For Monks, all the more reason to get Great Throw as you get to add the damage to that. GT isn't in OA, it was mistakenly left out, but is one of the best feats in the book.

Bob the monk throws Jerry the rogue to the ground for damage. Jerry attempts to stand up with a move equivalent action, provoking an AoO. Bob grabs him again and tosses him for more damage. Jerry, thinking Bob might be done with his AoOs for the round decides to stand up again. Whoops, wrong move, Bob grabs the rogue once more and this time tosses him down, telling Jerry not to get up unless he wants some more.

Tried and true, this becomes more effective in battle when used in conjunction with Bull's Str & Enlarge for reach. Toss opponents at one another and have fun.

 

[Joshua Randall]

The third maneuver of Combat Brute (tactical feat from Complete Warrior) has you getting x1.5 (one-handed) or x3 (two-handed) on a power attack, if you meet certain requirements. Surely there must be some hideously broken trick you can do involving this and a quickened True Strike....