Resist damage vs. a multi-attack power

[Chronosome]

If you slow it all down, it doesn't matter how many attack rolls there are. If you resolve one attack roll before moving on to the next, then you just ask, "Did I take damage?" If you did, reduce it by five. The number of attack rolls is irrelevant; it's instances of damage that count.

Yeah, that's the fundamental debate. Is twin slash dealing the damage as a power, or is it being dealt by the individual sword-strikes of that power? When all is said and done, the goliath was hit by a single twin slash, so...

 

[Nightson]

You get the benefit of static damage modifiers twice then you get the penalty of resist twice.

 

[Zinovia]

But it does matter, since the question is how the damage is applied. If it were applied in a single lump sum of 2d6, then it would only be 2d6 -5 from Stone's Endurance (average damage then ~2). But since it is applied as two damage rolls, Stone's Endurance applies to each meaning the damage done is 1d6-5 twice (average damage near zero).

Ah, I misunderstood the point of the question. Before I looked up the Goliath power, I was thinking of it as something that reduced damage from a single attack. The question would be whether the two attacks both would be reduced because they were a single action. Even after looking it up, I didn't reinterpret his post in light of the "end of your next turn" goliath power. Thanks for the clarification.

I'd say they were both reduced. There were two attack rolls made, so each is its own attack. This does serve to reduce the power of multi-hit powers, but as others have pointed out, that's not a bad thing. Assassins using multiple attack rolls against the same creature with one power is a bit weird, and I'd say it probably still applies to each separate hit, whether they are part of the same power or not. Different attack rolls = different attacks, in my opinion.

 

[mneme]

Zinova, this is why it's really applied once per -damage- instance, not once per attack.

Assassin "multi-hit" powers only do damage once, so they only get reduced once (they also only benefit from static bonuses once). They do get multiple chances to hit and crit, but that's really their only advantage over single-hit powers (not that that's not significant; it is).

OTOH, a Wizard's Flaming Sphere will let the wizard do -damage- one more time (at least) than they would normally be able to per turn. This is a damage roll (and benefits from most static multiplers) but isn't an attack -- however, it's certainly separately reduced by damage reduction.

 

[chitzk0i]

Yeah, that's the fundamental debate. Is twin slash dealing the damage as a power, or is it being dealt by the individual sword-strikes of that power? When all is said and done, the goliath was hit by a single twin slash, so...

The resistance rules don't say anything about reducing damage dealt by a power. They don't say anything about restricting how often it can reduce damage. The resistance rules say, "If you take damage of the specified type, reduce it." If you take damage, your resist all 5 reduces it. Twin slash deals damage in two sections. That's everything that enters into this.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Assassins using multiple attack rolls against the same creature with one power is a bit weird, and I'd say it probably still applies to each separate hit, whether they are part of the same power or not. Different attack rolls = different attacks, in my opinion.

The Assassin power in question specifically says " Make three attack rolls. If any of them hit, resolve them as a single hit, and all of them must miss for the attack to miss." Which is why it is resolved as a single instance of damage (thus Stone's Endurance would only apply once). This is different from how many other powers work, which is why it has the specific exceptional language in here. (And thus why I mentioned it as a counterexample to how other powers work.)


Any looking at attack rolls is misleading. We're looking at instances of damage being applied here. Damage can be applied by Miss lines or Effect lines or as a result of a Zone or all sorts of things. You can have several attack rolls but a single instance of damage, or a single attack roll but multiple instances of damage (ongoing damage does this).

 

[DracoSuave]

The Assassin power in question specifically says " Make three attack rolls. If any of them hit, resolve them as a single hit, and all of them must miss for the attack to miss." Which is why it is resolved as a single instance of damage (thus Stone's Endurance would only apply once). This is different from how many other powers work, which is why it has the specific exceptional language in here. (And thus why I mentioned it as a counterexample to how other powers work.)


Any looking at attack rolls is misleading. We're looking at instances of damage being applied here. Damage can be applied by Miss lines or Effect lines or as a result of a Zone or all sorts of things. You can have several attack rolls but a single instance of damage, or a single attack roll but multiple instances of damage (ongoing damage does this).

It's not that different from the Avenger, really.

 

[Zinovia]

The Assassin power in question specifically says " Make three attack rolls. If any of them hit, resolve them as a single hit, and all of them must miss for the attack to miss." Which is why it is resolved as a single instance of damage (thus Stone's Endurance would only apply once).

Here's what I get for being lazy and not looking up specific powers before writing posts. The line that I emphasized in the above quote makes a difference in how I would interpret this. As you say, they are resolved as a single hit, and thus treated as one attack for purposes of damage reduction.

Likewise, while I did make a point of using the attack roll as a means of determining what is or is not a separate attack, in practice I will look at instances of damage. If you are in a creature's damaging aura, and it does a twin strike type of power on you, that would be three separate instances of damage. If a rogue sneak attacks you, it's all one attack, even with extra dice, so resistance applies only once.

I think we are in agreement, but my failure to know the specifics of the powers in question has made me look like an idiot seem to disagree.