Resistance and saves question

[farscapesg1]

OK, this came up in the game today and after several minutes of arguments I got the group to just go with the DM's call. Now, after the game I wanted to bring the question up and get an answer before the next session.

Say a character has Fire Resistance 10 and is targetted with a Burning Hands spell. The DM rolled damage at 11 points. The character made his save to take only 1/2 damage.

Now, here is where the argument came in. Does the save take place before the damage should be rolled? The DM ruled that the damage was rolled (11 points), the character's Fire Resistance reduced this to 1 point of damage, and the save reduced it to .5 which is rounded up to 1 damage :\

The player and myself felt that it should have been 11 points, then reduced to 6 for making the save and no damage because it didn't get past the Fire Resistance. Of course, it was only 1 point, but I just want to get this straight.

Where is the exact ruling for how to determine the order of determining damage and applying resistances?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I'm positive the energy resistance applies in the end, so the creature in your example wouldn't have suffered any damage.

I'm trying to find a quote in the SRD to support this, but the only argument I have so far is logical: the creature avoided the flames as best as it could (successful save for ½ damage) and the remaining damage wasn't enough to burn because of its thick skin.

The other scenario would seem a little ludicrous IMO. I can only picture it as if the creature "absorbed" ~90% of the flames and had to try to avoid the remainder.

RESISTANCE TO ENERGY
A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity.
Each resistance ability is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. It doesn’t matter whether the damage has a mundane or magical source.
When resistance completely negates the damage from an energy attack, the attack does not disrupt a spell. This resistance does not stack with the resistance that a spell might provide.

AR

 

[Infiniti2000]

Two things:

1. There's no exact quote of ordering. But, the fact is that resistance only applies to some amount of damage taken. Your saving throw determines how much damage is taken. You must know how much damage you take before applying any resistances. Ergo, you roll the save first.

2. Half of 11 points of damage is 5. You do not round fractions, you truncate them (round down even at .5 or higher). See the SRD for one source on this, or your PH. The noted exceptions are damage and hit points which have a minimum of 1.

 

[farscapesg1]

Hmm, ok. I was hoping for a RAW answer that specifically applied to this :\ Oh well, I guess I will just have to send it in to Sage Advice and see if I can get a ruling since the DM follows those (even when the Sage is on crack ).

 

[IronWolf]

We've always played it that you get to make your save to determine how much damage you should be taking and then apply your resistance. This goes for many RPGA convention games too where I have had to use more protection from energies and resistance spells than I can count!

While I don't have a RAW answer, as the others have pointed out, it only makes sense really. The save from a fireball is a reflex save to help determine how much damage you were able avoid. Whether I have resistance or not shouldn't be a factor in whether I can whirl away into some nook or cranny or turn my backpack to help absorb the blow.

 

[Scharlata]

Hmm, ok. I was hoping for a RAW answer that specifically applied to this :\ Oh well, I guess I will just have to send it in to Sage Advice and see if I can get a ruling since the DM follows those (even when the Sage is on crack ).

Hi!

Even if it's a little far-fetched. Think about how Evasion works. First the Save then damage or no damage. It makes the most sense.

Kind regards

 

[reveal]

Now, here is where the argument came in. Does the save take place before the damage should be rolled? The DM ruled that the damage was rolled (11 points), the character's Fire Resistance reduced this to 1 point of damage, and the save reduced it to .5 which is rounded up to 1 damage :\

This makes no logical sense. The resistance is applied to actual damage taken. If a person makes their save, they only take half of the damage rolled. The resistance is applied towards that. What your DM ruled is that the resistance applies to theoretical damage.

 

[the Jester]

Save first; then you know how much damage you take in the first place. Then apply resistance.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[Taloras]

Agreed. The person with fire resistance is resisting the damage he takes. Not the damage his friend over there(who failed the save) takes. Saves go first. You apply resistance to damage you take, NOT damage you would take if you failed the save(since you passed the save). So you roll the damage(11), half it(5), and then apply resistance(10, so no damage taken).

 

[Infiniti2000]

Hmm, ok. I was hoping for a RAW answer that specifically applied to this :\ Oh well, I guess I will just have to send it in to Sage Advice and see if I can get a ruling since the DM follows those (even when the Sage is on crack ).

There is a RAW answer, but you just happen to be asking the wrong question.

The RAW answer is that the resistance applies to damage taken. Therefore, you necessarily need to determine damage taken before applying resistance. QED.

Oh, btw, I feel bad for you having a DM like that (who can't think for himself and only accepts answers only from the Sage). Maybe he's a great story teller, but that attitude has gotta be aggravating. You'd think that the resounding consensus in this thread would be sufficient to sway him.